Upgrading, will this work?

[the6goat6man6]

Well, I had plans to set up a 150gal that I have and looks like it's not going to happen. I planned to build an addition so I had a room to house everything for the 150. Now that I am not going to go in that dirrection I am looking at getting a larger display. I currently have a 40 tall, 20 sump/20fuge.

Will this work?

Could I set the new display up with dry sand and dry rock, new water, and use my existing display as the fuge? My display has a DSB already established. The new tank I am looking at is a 90gal. I plan to put very little sand in the display.

A concern I have is the fuge that i am using now, will it shock the system if I remove that completely, except the macro. I would put the macro in the new fuge (old display).

 

[vinny2261]

I think a lot will depend on the "load" in the setup. If you upgrade with more water and more rock to your already established system it should only make it better. Everything in the established tank will have new space to grow and thrive. However if you are adding more of a bio load to a new system you will end up with a cycle and have to start everything over. It can crash and basically start over just like a new system. Slow is better. Once you upgrade I would let it establish itself before adding more bio load, fish and coral. I always recommend feeding your tank with a little pinch of flake food every day. This gives the life in your tank a daily food source, the more food available stops cannibalism in your tank and the adults (pods and beneficial life) will have more babies to populate the new area. As the life in the system increases you can add more fish and coral. You should try and use as much of the old stuff as possible, even if you only use it to setup your refuge or sump. If you do not plan on using all of the old setup I would take things slower to establish the new system before adding a major load to the setup. Hopes this makes a little sense.

 

[the6goat6man6]

I would like to start with what i have, pretty much tag on a new display with dry sand and rock, no new life. The only thing I don't want to use is the existing fuge, it has crushed coral as a substrate and I want to eliminate this.

So can i can't remove the existing fuge with out ill effects huh? I would like to move my setup into a bigger display without having two displays setup at once.

I thought that maybe I could put all my LR in the new display and use the old display as the new fuge, being that it is established. My only worry is the existing fuge!

I have no fish if that helps, 2 small em. crabs, snails, TS leather, mushrooms, zoos, colt tree, torch, duster worms, plume rock with porites and x-mas tree worms.

 

[vinny2261]

I would say with what you currently have should not be a problem. If you plan on adding more to your "new" setup I would give it a little time to establish itself. If you are adding new dry rock and sand to expect a cycle, it should not effect your corals and current life, keep in mind the during the cycle process you can have a diatom algae bloom and hair algae, which may effect corals if the are covered up by this. If you plan on keeping the display fairly empty of the new sand and rock the blooms should be mostly limited to the tank that contains the rock and sand.

 

[the6goat6man6]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean?

Let me try to clearify;
New 90 gal, new dry sand, new dry rock, pumps ect.-reuse my existing Live rock in new display, my animals, the water and new water, I will put my macro into my "old" display along with a few peices of rock that hace macro growing on them. But i think i will suspend the LR above the DSB on egg crate. My big concern is removing the existing fuge, how much support is it now? Both the display and fuge currently have DSB, the display has Aragonite LS and the fuge is C. Coral. And again, no fish, I had a M. gold stripped clown and LTA, but recently got rid of them. So I am wondering if that will have effect also?

What if I sepperated my fuge from the system and watched water per. and ran my display with my sump and the fuge sepperate for a little while? that would tell me, or not a good idea?

 

[vinny2261]

OK, Now I am a little confused.... Your first post said that you planned on not having a DSB with very little sand in the display. All of the new stuff will cycle. You can always put your New rock and sand in a bucket or trash can and start the cycle process before you add it to the new setup. If you can at least use your established sand, rock , crushed coral or what ever you have to start up your new setup it will increase the beneficial critters to your new system. If you have something you don't want in your new system and want to start fresh expect a normal cycle time. The more of the old stuff you can use to establish your new setup will lessen the cycle time in the new setup. I would put everything together to establish at the same time. You could always keep most of your old system up and running until your parameter of the new system are acceptable for your current life that you already have. Then incorporate the old setup into the new setup.

 

[the6goat6man6]

I want to put very little sand in the new display, use the old display for the new fuge, and use my existing LR. The only thing I don't want to reuse is the old fuge(really just the crushed coralDSB) and the equipment that will be too small. I want to use my old display with it's existing DSB as my new fuge. All new sand and new rock will be dry, I have approx 60-75lbs of LR I am already using in my current display that is covered with coraline, pods, sponges, and Bworms.

 

[the6goat6man6]

it's funny how so many people veiw but don't reply. No one has any ideas?

 

[returnofsid]

The removal of the Crushed Coral won't have a large effect, though you will probably get a diatom bloom. Diatom blooms are pretty typical, with any major change though, and nothing to be overly concerned about.

The only thing that would concern me is the addition of the dry rock. IF this rock has dead organic material on it, dead and dry algae, dry detritus, etc., this dead material will contribute to an ammonia issue, as it decomposes in your tank. If the dry rock is sterile, you'll have no issues at all, other than the diatom bloom.

 

[vinny2261]

I agree with Sid, I would pressure wash the new rock to remove any dead organic material. This will allow the beneficial organism to propagate the new rock a little faster. Also as I said before you could put the new rock in a bucket or trash can a start the cycle a little sooner. The water you use could still be reused in your new setup, just don't suck the stuff off the bottom of the bucket.

 

[the6goat6man6]

Thanks guys, that help. I'm not trying to rush things, well alittle, but I just don't want to have two tanks set up. I figured I wouldn't have too many issues doing it this way.

Thank you

 

[vinny2261]

Sometimes there is no easy way. Short cuts do not always come with benifits.......

 

[the6goat6man6]

I do not mean to take short cuts, I planned on an addition this year, and plans feel through. Trust me, if my plans were able to go through, I was ready to let the 150 cycle for as long as it needed. Even if it was a year. I am just not happy with the little 40gal I currently have, I inherited it already set up. Because I can't do the 150 yet, I would really like to go alittle bigger. But for the reasons of an addition, I have limited space. I really don't have the room to have two tanks set up, but with alot of planning, alittle rearranging I hope I can "transplant" a small system into a bigger one. I do understand you really can't rush in this hobby, that is why I am asking for peoples opinions. If its that bad of an idea I would like to know, and any sugestions are greatly apreciated! I am hear to learn and help if I can, which I can't help much yet, not enough time in it.

 

[the6goat6man6]

So, would it be a better idea to use cured LR. I already have about half of the rock in my current display. Should I just get alittle more and cure it in a holding tank?

 

[vinny2261]

Bigger is always better Using the products you already have established will help the new system to get going a lot faster, you will have less of a cycle and less of a possibility of killing the live stock you already have. There is really many different ways and opinions of doing the swap. Most info is precautionary, you really should not have any problems going bigger unless you overload the new setup with too much at once. From what you have said your plans are, I think everything should be fine, with no problems. Curing the new rock separately for a short time will help ensure that you do not have a cycle from the new rock or sand, I would still expect some cycle.

 

[the6goat6man6]

My thoughts were that I really wasn't adding any thing that would cycle too much. I did not realize that dry rock would have anything organic on it, I thought it was steryle? Maybe i will just cycle the LR before adding it to the system, that way it won't have that much of an effect.

Hopefully I will be starting soon, I will track my moves here and post some pics.

Thank you for your help

 

[vinny2261]

Power washing the rock will remove most of the organics. They do not sterilize the rocks when they harvest from the ocean or if they mine it from a dryed up ocean bed, so all the dirt and anything that was living in the rock before dies and stays in or on the rocks. Cycling the rock helps to wash out the bad to make room for the good. If you power wash the rocks there will be a lot less of the organics left on the rocks making the cycle quicker and less items that may contaminate the water in the new system.

 

[the6goat6man6]

That makes sense, I think I will just cure them in a holding tank. High flow? Can I set it up with high flow and a hang on filter? Heres a dumb one, do I need a heater?

 

[Scooterman]

That makes sense, I think I will just cure them in a holding tank. High flow? Can I set it up with high flow and a hang on filter? Heres a dumb one, do I need a heater?

Yes, you want to make conditions just like in the tank, other than lighting.
I didn't read everything but read some and feel that I should throw in some thoughts, so forgive me If I repeated something or missed something. The existing display has a DSB that you want to re-use as the sump for the new tank, If you don't disturb it I think you'll be fine. If you remove your old refuge completely it probably will help being you used CC. Also since you don't have fish or much of anything in the tank you should be fine. I didn't see where you have corals or not? If not then you should be ok, it will take some time to get your new tank established being everything is new and dry, excluding the DSB. All of the new dry rock and sand will take a long time to get life going in it and able to handle a full bio-load, so you will have to wait that part out. Now that said, you do have to life in the system so that should help speed it up some and you probably can do a short time for the cycle and keep some bio-load but I would not recommend going all out until the entire tank is established.
Just a little food for thought.

 

[vinny2261]

High flow will help in washing and getting as much as possible out of the rocks. A HOB with a good pad will help in removing the unwanted organics out of the water to keep it from getting back in the rocks. A heater is nice but not really necessary since there is no life as of yet. Try and remember that the temp of the rock may lower your system temp if the rocks are to cold. Room temp usually does not present a problem. Not trying to make this such a under taking, just trying to help in speeding up the transition to the new system with as few a problems as can be done.