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rocstx

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
33
Hey people how goes it? As some of you already know, I just started my saltwater tank/aquapod this past week. I am just wondering if there are any neat looking live plants that I could use as a sort of start up in my tank. I am not looking to rush things here, but I am looking to help the tank along as much as possible by using natural forces so to speak lol. Please let me know what I might be able to do here to spice up the tank during the start up phase. My water has been very consistant for the last three days now at just below 1.022 Any help would be great!!

Thanks,
Jim
 
Jim,

1st, Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!! :D

Tell us a little more about your tank. What is in your tank? Do you have Live Rock, and if so how much? Skimmer? What do you have for lighting? What size is it? What are your plans for it?

Specifically, what are your plans? Will you be wanting a Fish Only, and then have some plants (like fresh-water people do) for color? Will you be wanting to have a Reef Tank, with mostly soft-corals? Will you be wanting to try SPS corals?

I know its a lot of questions, but I'm concerned with mentioning many plants, if it will end up becoming something you need to get out later for your "overall" plan, and will be a nightmare at that time to rid yourself of. Some plants, once they take hold... almost require being boiled to fully get rid of them later. I sure don't wish that type work on anyone! ;)
 
Hey Ed thank you for responding so fast. My tank is really nothing what I am reading right now as to what you have lol. I have a small 12 gallon aquapod. This unit is all self contained. Three stage filtration, three stage lighting, Good quality live sand, and just under 5 pounds of live rock in there as start up. I currently have 2 blue damsels, a hermit crab, and a small live sea snail. I was told that these are all hardy livestock that I could add to my start up phase. Everything living in the tank right now is doing outstanding to say the least!! Fish look great, snail and crab are very active, and appear to be very healthy. I am very new to all of the saltwater thing, so I hope I answered your ? enough for you to steer me in the right direction somewhat lol.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Okay, this is what I am starting out with.(Camera is not great, but you can see enough to tell me how I should proceed) I know its not much of a tank(12gallons),and I am affraid to add any thing else due to the start up phase not being complete. How far should I really go with adding more live rock? Everyone please chime in to help me get this thing started the right way. If It is okay to add more goodies, then I will be at the store taking car of busniess tomorrow lol. I seem to recall reading somewhere in this forum that to much live rick is not so good. and then I also remember reading it is good for the tank acting as natural filter to some extent. I am a little confused as to what I can really add to this at this point. PLEASE HELP!!.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Jim,

Sorry soo long between responses here... things are a tad on the hectic side at my end. :(

Okay, looks like you have a SUPER start on your little part of the ocean!!! :D

Don't ever worry about trying to compare your tank to someone else's!!! This is YOUR part of the Ocean, not mine, or Fred's, or Uncle Sam's. LOL Do what YOU want, have things look the way that pleases YOU, and at the same time takes the best care of the animals in your care that you can! As long as you do that, all is good! :D :D :D

Now, a few things I would look into doing with your setup:

"They" say (who ever "they" are is yet to be determined...) you should have 1lb to 1.5lb's per gallon of water of Live Rock in your tank for filtration. Yes, this Live Rock does kinda act as your filtration system. I would recommend you look into getting another good 5lb (or more) chunk of rock into your tank, so you have more surface area for filtration.

Live Rock is very porous, being basically old dead coral, it loaded with thousands of little holes which create a much greater surface area than the size of the rock would suggest. On all of those various surface areas, bacteria will form that helps us with “purification” if you would, of our water for our animals.

A very simple explanation of that "purification" here...

When your fish go potty, it is almost pure ammonia. In a tank your size, very little (Lets call it 1 oz total... for explanation purposes only) ammonia is poisonous to our fish. As that ammonia begins building up in your tank, a bacteria forms on all of the surface areas inside your tank, that absolutely LUV eating Ammonia... and their waist product is Nitrite. Again, at a low level Nitrite (Lets say 10 oz... again for explanation purposes only) is also poisonous to our fish... and another bacteria also begin building up that just LUV eating Nitrite, and that bacteria's waist product is Nitrate. Nitrate is tolerable in much higher levels in our tanks (upwards of say... 5 gallons worth... and yet again this number is only to help with the explanation of this process), and our normal weekly/monthly water changes help to keep this under control. Once our tank has matured, there is even the ability in that Live Rock to take the process 1 step further for us, and convert the Nitrate into Nitrogen, which is then absorbed through the water, and released back into the atmosphere!

The above cycle, is a very simplified explanation for you of the "Nitrogen Cycle". Of course, all those numbers aren't accurate, but I wanted to use them to give you more of a feeling for how those various components relate. Hopefully it didn't confuse you more. (Sometimes, I just need to be SLAPPED, I type too much!!!) ;)

All of the initial cycle takes time. Your tank begins with no detectable traces of Ammonia, Nitrite or Nitrate (hopefully, as long as the water you used to fill your tank is good RO or RO/DI water). As things decay, or in the example above, as our fish do what comes naturally... Ammonia builds up. Once the bacteria develop, you will see the Ammonia level raise and raise and raise... then in less than a day it seems to drop off to nuttin! Wooohooo! Phase 1 of your tank cycling is complete. Then, the same things happen with Nitrites. Once Nitrites have totally dropped back to Zero, your tank is considered "Cycled". Even though you will still see Nitrate, at this time it is okay to start SLOWLY stocking your tank with animals.

NOTICE "SLOWLY" capitalized above. Do things SLOWLY in this hobby... you'll get the best results, and have the least heartbreaks!!! ;)

Do you have any test kits for testing Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate? Since you stated that you just setup this tank in the last week, I would guess your system is still in the "Ammonia build-up" phase. This will be the most questionable phase for your animals health. If they aren't poisoned by this Ammonia buildup, their life span can be significantly reduced due to having to work their way through this. I'm not trying to tell you this to make you panic, but want you to be aware of the possibilities as your tank matures.

IF the Live Rock and Live Sand you put into your tank, came from a very well established tank (not a Rock Curing Vat), its possible the various bacteria required for the Nitrogen cycle is already present on it... and you will just need to add more rock to have enough filtration for a tank your size (again, good rule of thumb is 1lb to 1.5lb of Live Rock per gallon of water). If your Live Rock did come from a curing Vat type thing, thats okay as well, just be aware that during shipping, the lack of circulated heated water will of caused die-off of many things on that rock... like the bacteria we are hoping to develop... and again, when things die, the Nitrogen cycle begins (i.e.. ammonia).

Right now, do your best to resist putting any more animals into your tank, until you are sure you have completed this initial cycle. There are a few more “New Tank Syndrome” that are still ahead of you, but until this initial cycle has completed for you, I won’t worry you with those quite yet. ;)

Keep us all posted here as to your progress! Read, use the Search feature to get yourself more information! Ask questions!!! No question you can have about your setup is EVER a dumb question!!! NONE of us here were born knowing how to take care of a piece of the Ocean… we all had to learn! Luckily, there are places like Reef Frontiers that give us the advantage of having other’s help us, by letting us know how their experiences went, and we can better learn from those! :D :D :D
 
Wow Ed, very nice. I found your response most informative!!. Thank you for taking the time to help out with such great in depth info. I am gonna grab some additional Live rock, and See what happens. My curent set up is still holding it's own. The fish are doing very well, and crabs are the same. I'll keep you posted on the tank progession.

Thank You,
Jim
 
Jim,

Its ALWAYS okay to just say "Ed... WAY TOO MUCH GUY!" :D :D :D

I do know I have a horrible habbit of typing waaaaaaaay tooooooo much, sorry! :shock:
 
I think your responses are great, and not overdone at all!! The more I read the better I'll be for it. Keep it comin.

Thanks,
Jim
 
If you do get the chance Jim, run what ever tests you may have on your tank, then get back to us with your results. Let us know what brand tests you have also, as I'm sure we will have a suggestion as to which tests you buy when the time comes for more.

I have a feeling that your tank is still in its innitial cycle, and you will want to keep track of your ammonia & nitrite levels, so you know when your tank has finished that "Cycle".

For now though, don't do any water changes, just let things take their course. Let us know if/when you start noticing a "brownish" film on your rockwork & glass. Its normal, but I don't expect you seeing much of this until after your tank has Cycled. Keep an eye on your fish and crabs, and don't over feed.
 
I have not done any testing on the tank yet. I was advised buy the sales dude at the pet store, that I could wait a few weeks before getting into tesing. I personally think you are right, that I should be testing the water more at this point to see whats goin on in there. I am gonna start tesing this weekend/Sat, and see what's goin down with the water. I'll let you know what I come up with. Thanks again for all of your help.

Take Care,
Jim
 
Jim, congrats on your tank, looks great! :D

Beware, reefing is addictive. Before you know it, your aquapod will be up for sale, being replaced by a 55, then a 100, then a 240... So watch out! :D

Where are you located, if you don't mind me asking?
 
Hey how are you Aquarookie? thanks for the tank compliment(though there is not much there yet lol) Yes your right, I already feel the addiction thing with the whole reef deal lol. Anyway, I am located in New York. I see you are in Seattle. Keep in touch.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Jim,

What test kit(s) did your Local Fish Store guy recommend to you? I know there are some good "basic" kits, that work well for a new tank... even if they aren't extremely accurate or easy to use. After your initial "Cycle", a couple of those tests you won't run, unless you are suspecting a particular problem. After that initial "cycle", there are some easier to use, more accurate test kits we can recommend you look into... even if they are a little more expensive, they are well worth the cost because of their accuracy.
 
Jim, Ed gave you alot of great information! I have only had my tank up for 2 weeks tommorow and I'm at the "Brown film" stage. It's hard to resist the urge to just throw a bunch of fish in tank and hope they make it but I'm holding back. As for one person telling you one thing and someone else another. I have found that alot and I decided to go buy some books. Most people give you info on what has worked for them... you just have to find what works for you. BTW I have a 90gal/30 gallon sump... stuff to make the water go round and blowy thingys that move the water in the tank 40 lbs live rock and getting more this weekend... I love this stuff. Jim, yeah that's me.
 
Hey how are you? Yes it is very tempting to load up on the fish thing lol. I have resisted overall except for some extra crabs. I just added the rest of my live rock a short while ago today. I did ask several times when I purchased my tank about start up fish, the store dude told me I could start out with a few living things, I have had all good luck so far lol. Nothing kicked the bucket yet lol, but there is always next week to watch out for lol. I hope what I have in the tank now makes it. I don't have a bunch of money into it as far as start up fish goes, but I would like them to live just the same. So far everything that I now know I took a major chance in buying, are all doing great! very healthy looking, and acting. I also just started the brown phase that Ed mentioned. Can you tell me what that is about?. Thanks for the chime in on the post, and yes I am also hitting the book store this weekend as well.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Okay Ed, I noticed the brown stuff in the tank, so I am here for your help again, being as you told me to tell ya when I get to this stage in my tank start up lol. Let me know what to do or not to do at this point lol. Thanks!!

Jim
 
Jim,

The brown diatom stage you are in now... is also referred to as "New Tank Syndrome". It happens in about EVERY new tank, nothing to worry about, just something you have to get through.

Tell us what your tests (ammonia, nitrite & nitrate) are like right now. Usually, you don't start the Diatom stage until your system has gone through the initial cycle, but in this hobby anything is possible. Once we know your tank has cycled, then we can start recommending some water changes and basic cleaning to help with the diatoms... but you do want to see ZERO on Ammonia & Nitrite before we start this.
 
Okay Ed, thanks. I am getting a new test kit today, so I will be back later to give up the results. Also, when I started up my tank I purchased some fairly expensive sand/sea bed matter. I was told it would help speed up the cycle process somewhat. Maybe that's why the tank is doing the brown stage thing already(just my opinion though lol) I'll be back on later with test results.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Jim,

IF you haven't already purchased your Test Kits... I recommend looking into the Salifert brand test kits. They are more spendy, but easy to use and accurate for our hobby.

However, for the basic needs you have right now, MOST test kits will do just fine for measuring your Ammonia & Nitrite. After this innitial cycle, you won't much have a use for either of those tests again.

Hummmm... thinking a little more on that subject, IF possible, take in a water sample from your tank to your LFS (Local Fish Store), and just ask them to test for Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate. IF Ammonia & Nitrite both measure zero, just purchase a Nitrate test kit (again, Salifert is what I recommend). Eventually, you will want to own both an Alkalinity & Calcium test kit also, but for just starting out, you can get away with knowing your tank has cycled (ammonia & nitrite both gone), and by monitoring your Nitrate along with weekly water changes, your tank will be getting close to what is needed on everything else.

The key will be doing your regular weekly water changes (5-10% weekly), until your tank has matured and the monitoring and adjusting of Alkalinity & Calcium become more important for you.
 
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