Vinegar Solution

[DonW]

Tunze disagrees with your statement; as I mentioned I have not tried it but Tunze expressly says that muriatic acid will damage Tunze pumps. I think if statements are to be made that others might read and take as fact that they should be backed by correct information supported by the vendor; risking damage to a pump that is many hundreds of $$ should not be taken so lightly.

To quite Tunze person:

Do not use muriatic acid, it will swell the plastic. Use Vinegar or citric acid.

__________________
Roger Vitko
Tunze USA

First you talking straight vinegar vs straight muriatic acid. First you need a better understaning of acids a the ph scale in general. Since the ph scale is a ten fold scale muriatic can be diluted to the point where its only two or three times stronger than vinegar and WILL NOT damage the pump. In its straight for it would damage the pump but again will not hurt it diluted. This is fact.

Don

 

[kenargo]

First you talking straight vinegar vs straight muriatic acid. First you need a better understaning of acids a the ph scale in general. Since the ph scale is a ten fold scale muriatic can be diluted to the point where its only two or three times stronger than vinegar and WILL NOT damage the pump. In its straight for it would damage the pump but again will not hurt it diluted. This is fact.

Don

At risk of damaging my pumps I will stick to what the manaufacturer says. They said the same thing for people asking about a 1/10 mix but that may be more of a company line that fact based. Personally, I'd prefer to use it to clean my Tunze as I agree that it would clean them quicker but if a pump was damaged I doubt Tunze would cover repair under warranty.

 

[DonW]

At risk of damaging my pumps I will stick to what the manaufacturer says. They said the same thing for people asking about a 1/10 mix but that may be more of a company line that fact based. Personally, I'd prefer to use it to clean my Tunze as I agree that it would clean them quicker but if a pump was damaged I doubt Tunze would cover repair under warranty.

Vinegar with a ph of 3 would have only 10,000 H ions but at 0 it 10,000,000. This give folks a better understanding of why muriatic acid can be diluted or extended to such great amount. Obviously use this as a guide and dont toss your pumps in a jug of straight acid.

Don

 

[Frankie]

Not to sure about all these cleaning chemicals because I have always just use good old tooth brushes, hot water and some elbow grease with great results. Not much out there that I cannot clean with these three things.
Good to know about the MA being safe for future usage Don. Thanks for the info.

 

[trido]

I think it more the fear factor of the name itself is why people shy away from using muriatic vs vinegar not real life experience.

I personally think the fear is warranted. I used ALOT of muriatic acid when I worked for a masonry restoration/brick layer company 20 years ago and occasionally pick up a jug to clean my tile setting tools. I'll relay some of my experiences with the two.

When I open a bottle of vinegar I smell vinegar,
When I open a bottle of muriatic acid I see a yellowish chemical vapor rising out of the jug. It tends to burn my nose and sting my eyes if I'm not paying attention.

When I pour vinegar into my cleaning container, other than spilling and being wasteful, I dont worry much.
When I pour muriatic acid, I have to do it in a certain order, I have to watch that I dont get it onto my skin and have to worry about my eyes. If I'm not careful and I breathe the vapors, it will take my breath away in a not so nice way.


When my tool or pumps are soaking in vinegar, I leave them in my wash basin sink.
When I soak my tools in acid, I hide the bucket from my child, wife and pets.

Vinegar is edible and I let my seven year old son measure it when we make pickles in the fall.
Muriatic acid can cause skin burns, blindness, and respiratory irritation.Rubber gloves and safety goolges are highly recommended.

IMO people should have a bit of fear. Its NOT a product your average reefkeeper should keep near the tank.

 

[Boomer]

Please follow Don's instructions if you use hydrochloric acid (Muriatic acid ).

MSDS
http://www.dynamicaqua.com/msds/Muriatic_acid.pdf



When I open a bottle of muriatic acid I see a yellowish chemical vapor rising out of the jug.

This is "fuming" hydrochloric acid and is on the order of 38 %

 

[DonW]

I personally think the fear is warranted. I used ALOT of muriatic acid when I worked for a masonry restoration/brick layer company 20 years ago and occasionally pick up a jug to clean my tile setting tools. I'll relay some of my experiences with the two.

IMO people should have a bit of fear. Its NOT a product your average reefkeeper should keep near the tank.

Your showing your age. That stuff hasnt been available for the typicle retail customer for well over a decade. It requires a hazmat permit in this state along with a containment facility.

The stuff we get nowadays at Lowes or Home depot is made for the homeowner and does not fume. A good rule of thumb is to treat it just like your wife treats laundry bleach. You dont dump it on your clothes before filling the washer you fill the washer then dump the bleach. The same goes for muriatic acid. You keep it away from kids and animals just like any other household cleaner. You avoid getting it on your skin just like bleach. Your mother did it for years, these are pretty simple rules to follow.

Its not going to melt the skin off your body. Its not strong enough to burn holes in your clothes like battery acid. Its just a semi strong corrosive that anyone that is competent enough to use household bleach can handle safely.

I'm sure their are plenty of folks that can and will screw it up. Those are the ones that need to stick with vinegar and stay out of the laundry room also. If you find the need to clean your pumps within reach of small children then vinegar is the best option. You probably wouldnt leave a bucket of bleach within reach of your kids either. Use some common sense and over the counter muriatic acid is a quick inexpensive safe solution.

Don

 

[Boomer]

Don

ph of 3 would have only 10,000 H ions but at 0 it 10,000,000

Actually

pH 3 = 0.001 x ( 6.023 x 10^23) = H+ ( but really H3O) in 1 liter.

pH2 = 0.01 x ( 6.023 x 10^23)

pH 1 = 0.1 x ( 6.023 x 10^23)

pH= 0 = 6.023 x 10^23= 602,300,000,000,000,000,000,000 H+ / liter

 

[Jesse_emel]

awesome, no really?

that would be the worlds worst drink

if the piece of equipment is small enough i use it straight for fast results. If the equipment is bigger i go 1/2 and 1/2 with water and I personally found warming the water not only cleans your heater but works better.

 

[capdippe]

I'm going with the vinegar.

 

[dogfrog]

I'm going with the vinegar.

LoL... After all this good info. It's not as nasty as it sounds. 2 gal of water in a 5 gal bucket. Add about 2 cups of the acid and away you go. I have a lid for mine with a small hole in the top for any cords to out of so I can plug the punp in and let it run. After about 15 min it's a dipp in some baking soda water and a rinse in water and back into the tank it goes.