Vlamingi Troubles

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Vicki

Anemone
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
Messages
579
Location
Puyallup, WA
I have a juvinile Vlamingi Tang in quarantine and need some suggestions on what he has and what to treat him with. I just recently bought this guy, but he's been in another's tank for several years. He looked okay the day I brought him home.

Here's some pictures. Any ideas?
 
Sorry to hear of the problem. :cry:

Has the fish been through any trauma during the catch and transfer and acclimation? How soon did this show up after acclimation (or before) to the QT? :confused:

Obviously the QT must be large enough and with excellent water quality, so if these are not perfect, you may wish to bring that under control. ;)

Before getting into the QT did you perform any prophylactic treatment? What water quality and chemistries did the fish come from? how do those chemistries compare to the QT?

The questions come from a possible perspective that the fish was injured when caught/transfered/acclimated either physically or by the water change. The resulting damage can allow bacteria and opportunistic microbes (e.g., fungus) to gain a foothold. :evil:

The fish is, nonetheless stressed. Provide an optimal diet and nutrition and include immune boosters. Treat with a systemic antibiotic (such as Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish) and monitor the fish closely to see if it getting any worse. It is very important to review the fish's diet, since such an infected fish can do a lot to heal on its own when given the proper nutrition.

Nutirional posts here:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15720
and
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15719
Immune booster advice:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...ase-treatment/19728-fish-immune-boosters.html

I'm putting parasites on the 'back burner' since you have some knowledge of the source of the fish and, unless there is some known condition in the QT or the tank the fish came from, this isn't parasitic action. Still, I would like to eliminate internal worms from the possible list. Has the fish been de-wormed by the previous owner? by you?

Keep us informed.
 
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is the fish's skin slimy or hazy looking???? don't lower the salinity any more than you already have...this could be "marine velvet"...
 
it is defiantely sounding like amyloodinium(marine velvet)..if it turns out to be this, you will have to treat with copper, preferably Cupramine..you will also need a copper test kit...let Steve S take a look at it.....i would leave the salinity alone for right now..you will have to raise it back up over the next few days if it turns out to be velvet..in the mean time, check this out and see if it resembles your problem..

http://petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/amyloodinium.html
 
Hi Lee,

Yes, the fish went through some trauma when he was caught. He managed to get his spines caught in the net and was pretty stuck. I noticed problems within the first 24 hours.

Water quality is good, doing 2 water changes daily, tank could be bigger, and no prophylactic treatment done initially. The past several days I've added Melafix, an herbal treatment. He seems to be getting worse, that's my reason for the thread. The fish is a good eater and gets a varied diet with vitamins added.

To the best of my knowledge, the fish hasn't been wormed. Maybe the previous owner will reply if he knows. :)

I'll start looking for the Maracyn Two.

Thanks!
Vicki

Sorry to hear of the problem. :cry:

Has the fish been through any trauma during the catch and transfer and acclimation? How soon did this show up after acclimation (or before) to the QT? :confused:

Obviously the QT must be large enough and with excellent water quality, so if these are not perfect, you may wish to bring that under control. ;)

Before getting into the QT did you perform any prophylactic treatment? What water quality and chemistries did the fish come from? how do those chemistries compare to the QT?

The questions come from a possible perspective that the fish was injured when caught/transfered/acclimated either physically or by the water change. The resulting damage can allow bacteria and opportunistic microbes (e.g., fungus) to gain a foothold. :evil:

The fish is, nonetheless stressed. Provide an optimal diet and nutrition and include immune boosters. Treat with a systemic antibiotic (such as Maracyn Two for Saltwater fish) and monitor the fish closely to see if it getting any worse. It is very important to review the fish's diet, since such an infected fish can do a lot to heal on its own when given the proper nutrition.

Nutirional posts here:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15720
and
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15719
Immune booster advice:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...ase-treatment/19728-fish-immune-boosters.html

I'm putting parasites on the 'back burner' since you have some knowledge of the source of the fish and, unless there is some known condition in the QT or the tank the fish came from, this isn't parasitic action. Still, I would like to eliminate internal worms from the possible list. Has the fish been de-wormed by the previous owner? by you?

Keep us informed.
 
Hi Ron,

I just checked out that article and the fish doesn't have any of the first four signs of amyloodiniosis. I do have a copper test kit, but no Cupramine. I do have CopperSafe though. PetsMart is right up the road though.

Vicki


it is defiantely sounding like amyloodinium(marine velvet)..if it turns out to be this, you will have to treat with copper, preferably Cupramine..you will also need a copper test kit...let Steve S take a look at it.....i would leave the salinity alone for right now..you will have to raise it back up over the next few days if it turns out to be velvet..in the mean time, check this out and see if it resembles your problem..

http://petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/amyloodinium.html
 
i just recently treated a PB tang for this..it didn't have any of those signs either...some of those could come as it advances and gets worse....you can mainly identify it by the "dusty appearance"....the skin could look hazy or very slimy.. i am not ruling out another possiblity, but from what i can see in the pics and the hazy look, my bet is on this.. i would keep up with the water changes and the vitamins until you get Steve's thoughts on it...
 
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Sorry to hear of your not-happy fishy. Besides the obvious remedies, have you considered nutrition? Found the following interesting:
"Vitamin C Deficiency

Ascorbic acid is an essential vitamin of fish. Deficiencies of this vitamin lead to poor wound healing, ulceration of the skin on fins, hemorrhage, and skeletal deformity. This vitamin is very temperature sensitive and oxidizes readily in stored feed."


Here is another good reference on all kinds of diseases and different cures with attached references:
http://home2.pacific.net.ph/~sweetyummy42/disease.html

"
 
As I had previously mentioned, I would doubt this is a parasite. If the fish is coming from a known (re disease) tank, healthy at that time, I'd be hard pressed to agree the fish got infested with any parasitic organism by just being transferred into your QT unless it could have gotten contaminated just prior to leaving the tank it came from (e.g., a new addition to that display was not quarantined).

The extra mucous could well be from the damage to the fish's coating during the capture, which would easily show itself within 24 hours of the trauma. BTW, such trauma can kill such a fish. (If this was a scenario at the fish store, I would refuse to purchase the fish after that kind of event. :( )

I'd make the fish comfortable (keep the salinity at 16ppt), treat with antibiotics, and also if you have available to you, some fish coating additive, use it to help the fish regain its mucous coating defenses.

Regarding Melafix and Pimafix my knowledge of their value is posted here:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...-melafix-pimafix-how-they-work-dont-work.html

Good luck! :)
 
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This is my fish:cry:

I had him for about a year or so. The previous owner had him for 2 years he said. as far as being wormed I did not do it due to I never saw nothing in his stool or no signs of worry. He was easy to catch but he raised his dorsel fin in the net and wedged himself in the the net I was carefull not to damage the fish, but added stress to the situation. His tank mates were a purple tang, blonde naso, 2 damsels, snowflake eel. these guys were added months ago. their was one new addition a racoon butterfly that I QT'd for about a month. He had a lump on his tail (lymposis) I took care of that waited a week and a half and with no signs of it growing back. I added him to the tank with the tangs.

I do not think it is velvet! if it was he would already be dead by now. its been a couple weeks already.

I am leaning towards fungus/ viral infection. What ever the case may be Vicki I will make it up to you. very upset about the little guy. he never showed any signs of nothing before. healthy as could be.

How is he eating behavior???? he was a little pig contantly eating whenever food was available. I dont think I could ever make that fish full. His diet was formula 1/2, brine shrimp, prime reef ocean nutrition brand flake foods. frozen mysis, enriched brine, krill, and he would steal silversides from the eel as well. I also fed him green algae sheets. specific gravity was 1.017-018 he was in my fish only and I always have kept my fish only salinity low alittle bit.

Nothing else in the tank is showing anything, but Im here for you.
 
Vicki, what is in your tank??any new additions???? it could just be stress or trauma, but details will help
 
here is what my PB looked like before i treated it...

Thanks Ron for all the information. That doesn't quite look the same though. Hopefully Steve will be around shortly and know exactly what this guy has.

Vicki
 
Hey Mike!

Thanks for your thoughts. You know, I tried an orange, but he didn't seem to like it and it really fouled the water. Now bananas....... :D

Nutrition is always something I'm thinking about. Hopefully his diet is proper as well as all my other fishes.

Vicki



Sorry to hear of your not-happy fishy. Besides the obvious remedies, have you considered nutrition? Found the following interesting:
"Vitamin C Deficiency

Ascorbic acid is an essential vitamin of fish. Deficiencies of this vitamin lead to poor wound healing, ulceration of the skin on fins, hemorrhage, and skeletal deformity. This vitamin is very temperature sensitive and oxidizes readily in stored feed."


Here is another good reference on all kinds of diseases and different cures with attached references:
http://home2.pacific.net.ph/~sweetyummy42/disease.html

"
 
Thanks again Lee for your knowledge. From Diablo's response, the fish hasn't been exposed to anything that wasn't quarentined properly and to his knowledge, hasn't been wormed.

I just did another water change and lowered his salinity a bit more. I did have some Prime around, so added a little of that too. As to the Melafix; it's helped before and doesn't seem to do any damage. Just thought it was worth a try, but didn't seem to solve anything this time.

THANKS!
Vicki


As I had previously mentioned, I would doubt this is a parasite. If the fish is coming from a known (re disease) tank, healthy at that time, I'd be hard pressed to agree the fish got infested with any parasitic organism by just being transferred into your QT unless it could have gotten contaminated just prior to leaving the tank it came from (e.g., a new addition to that display was not quarantined).

The extra mucous could well be from the damage to the fish's coating during the capture, which would easily show itself within 24 hours of the trauma. BTW, such trauma can kill such a fish. (If this was a scenario at the fish store, I would refuse to purchase the fish after that kind of event. :( )

I'd make the fish comfortable (keep the salinity at 16ppt), treat with antibiotics, and also if you have available to you, some fish coating additive, use it to help the fish regain its mucous coating defenses.

Regarding Melafix and Pimafix my knowledge of their value is posted here:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...-melafix-pimafix-how-they-work-dont-work.html

Good luck! :)
 
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Hey Larry,

I'm not blaming you in any way whatsoever. The fish looked just great in your tank! I'm just in need of some help.

He is still eating well and seems to feel just fine. He just looks awful.

Vicki


This is my fish:cry:

I had him for about a year or so. The previous owner had him for 2 years he said. as far as being wormed I did not do it due to I never saw nothing in his stool or no signs of worry. He was easy to catch but he raised his dorsel fin in the net and wedged himself in the the net I was carefull not to damage the fish, but added stress to the situation. His tank mates were a purple tang, blonde naso, 2 damsels, snowflake eel. these guys were added months ago. their was one new addition a racoon butterfly that I QT'd for about a month. He had a lump on his tail (lymposis) I took care of that waited a week and a half and with no signs of it growing back. I added him to the tank with the tangs.

I do not think it is velvet! if it was he would already be dead by now. its been a couple weeks already.

I am leaning towards fungus/ viral infection. What ever the case may be Vicki I will make it up to you. very upset about the little guy. he never showed any signs of nothing before. healthy as could be.

How is he eating behavior???? he was a little pig contantly eating whenever food was available. I dont think I could ever make that fish full. His diet was formula 1/2, brine shrimp, prime reef ocean nutrition brand flake foods. frozen mysis, enriched brine, krill, and he would steal silversides from the eel as well. I also fed him green algae sheets. specific gravity was 1.017-018 he was in my fish only and I always have kept my fish only salinity low alittle bit.

Nothing else in the tank is showing anything, but Im here for you.
 
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