Water Change and Cloudy Water Next Day

[jaymz69]

ast night I did 20% water change
Vacuum the sand
Cleaned the canister
added anew charcoal bag

This morning the water seemed to have gotten cloudy through the night. Now the fish are at the bottom. I got them into a bucket of quick made sea water with air pump for now.

I am going to take over 50% of the water out and go to my local fish store to get their pre-made water.

But what happened?
Did I do too much at once and caused this?
:frusty:

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Vacuuming the sand most likely stirred up too much organics and removed too much of the helpful bacteria (also in the carbon) causing a new cycle with elevated ammonia and nitrates.

IN REEF KEEPING TAKE YOUR TIME, AS NOTHING GOOD EVER HAPPENS FAST.

Water change...

 

[Krish]

Also, there is something called a bacterial bloom that you may be experiencing that could be the cause of cloudiness. Do a google search on it and see if the conditions seem to fit your situation. Also, pre-made saltwater not mixed properly and allowed sufficient time aerate can cause some cloudiness as well.

 

[jaymz69]

I have done several changes before and even a tank upgrade. But this is the first time I have had this happen.

But it is also the first time I stirred up the sand with a vacuum.

All my readings were good. A measure all the time.

 

[Krish]

I have done several changes before and even a tank upgrade. But this is the first time I have had this happen.

But it is also the first time I stirred up the sand with a vacuum.

All my readings were good. A measure all the time.

Could be from stirring the sand bed and as mentioned, possibly a bacterial bloom. If it was from the sandbed and if it was done last night, then by today it should have cleared up. Sometimes running a polishing cartridge in a canister filter will clear it up if that is the case.


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[jaymz69]

Well thanks, I will remember that next time on the sand bed cleaning.
I remember asking Nata the other week on how she moved fish around and kept them stable.
So I quickly caught the two and put them in the bucket with an air bubbler and heater - Thanks Nata....

So that bought me time to drain 75% of the water out and bring in 15 gallons from the fish store's supply and mix my own for the rest.
I also took out the canister and figured I beter drain it even though I cleaned it last night.
WOW , it smelt like rotten eggs pretty much - I would say bacteria out-of-control!
So I rinsed it all out and filled it with fresh saltwater.

Thanks ll for your comments

 

[jaymz69]

It is back up and running but still seems a little cloudy looking still.
I suppose I should let it run for a couple hours before introducing this back into the tank....

 

[Krish]

If it is a bacterial bloom, you could change water all day and it won't make a difference. On that same note, if it isn't a bacterial bloom and you poured all that new water directly on your sandbed stirring it up again, then the water will be cloudy again until it settles.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

What the bloom is made up of is kinda besides the point.
The issue is why the fish are severly stressed and what can be done about it.
Most likely fixable by water change and fresh carbon.
Leave your sand bed alone, never really any reason to mess with it, doing so is asking for trouble...

 

[Krish]

What the bloom is made up of is kinda besides the point.
The issue is why the fish are severly stressed and what can be done about it.
Most likely fixable by water change and fresh carbon.
Leave your sand bed alone, never really any reason to mess with it, doing so is asking for trouble...

Nothing wrong with messing with a sand bed if it is a shallow sand bed. If anyone runs a shallow sand bed they should vacuum it regularily to remove any waste trapped in there otherwise it will just sit there, rott and degrade water quality, but...You have to know what you are doing. Even some people with deep sand beds will sometimes vacuum just the very top layer of the sand (avoiding the anaerobic and anoxic zones) so really it all depends on what type of sand bed you are running. Nothing at all wrong with messing with a sand bed regularily if you know what kind of sand bed you are running and know what you are doing and how to care for it.

As for the fish being stressed, I must have missed that part totally. All I remember seeing was cloudy water LOL! I will have to go back and read that part again.

 

[Krish]

Vacuuming the sand most likely stirred up too much organics and removed too much of the helpful bacteria (also in the carbon) causing a new cycle with elevated ammonia and nitrates.

IN REEF KEEPING TAKE YOUR TIME, AS NOTHING GOOD EVER HAPPENS FAST.

Water change...

This is probably the issue here after going back and reading things. Too much beneficial bacteria removed too quickly/all at once is what it sounds like. I fell in this boat a few times cleaning too much too often when first getting into the hobby. Thought I was doing the tank a favor, but was just messing up things. Sometimes it is suggested to vacuum just one side of the tank one week and then the other side the next week. This way, you don't remove too much of the good stuff all at once. Also, you can alternate things. Maybe clean your canister one week and leave the sand bed alone and then the next week alternate. Doing everything all one time can cause issues if you remove too much beneficial bacteria all at once. I'd test your ammonia and nitrite levels to see where they are at. Also, make sure you rinse your carbon properly before adding it to the tank. There's a lot of dust that has to be removed from carbon before added in.

 

[jaymz69]

I tested everything nag only the nitrite was high. Everything else is good. I have it running all night with some added nite-out II and chemi-pure carbon filter plus.

After six hours the water is looking better but the nitrite is still higher. The fish ate doing good in the bucket with air and a heater so I will leave then in for half the night an check again.

Lesson learned on the whole clean at once.

 

[kpiotrowski]

my guess is too much of your bio-filter was in the sandbed...which will happen without regular cleaning. There will always only be enough good bacteria in a system for the amount of food supply they have (amonia/nitrite). take away the food supply (cleaning) and you can have bacteria die-off. take away much of the bacteria by allowing your sand bed to become the main biofilter by not cleaning it regualrly and then giving it a good cleaning and you have bloom. Both bloom and die-off can cloud water. the fact that you have nitrite and no amonia ( the bacteria that use nitrite are slower to multiply) makes me think you waited too long to clean your sand bed and it became your main biofilter when your live rock should do that job. you cant clean your sand bed too much as long as you clean it regularly. Your fish at the bottom maybe that they were just stress out over all the human activity in the tank. if they were truly stressed otherwise i would keep trying to figure out what happened.

Bottom line...don't be afraid to keep your sand bed clean!!! ( deep sand beds are another story) it will encourage benifitial bacteria to establish elswhere (live rock) and keep your nitrates lower by taking the waste out before it is broken down in the "cycle" AND in the end keep the need for tons of bacteria down cuz you are limiting their food supply in the first place.

 

[Krish]

I tested everything nag only the nitrite was high. Everything else is good. I have it running all night with some added nite-out II and chemi-pure carbon filter plus.

After six hours the water is looking better but the nitrite is still higher. The fish ate doing good in the bucket with air and a heater so I will leave then in for half the night an check again.

Lesson learned on the whole clean at once.

If is infact nitrite you are reading and not nitrate, then that is what is causing the problem with your fish. Nitrite, although not as toxic as ammonia is still toxic to fish so this may be stressing them. You probably did remove too much aerobic bacteria which is responsible for breaking down ammonia and nitrite thus the reason for reading them. Your bacterial colonies will have to re-build now.

 

[jaymz69]

Yes it was the Nitrite (with the 'i') I know my fish and its behavior and that is not typical behavior from it no matter how much I may clean in a tank or doing Water Changes.
That is what tipped me off to think something is not right. Well the tank had all night by itself and the levels of Nitrite are down, way down compared to yesterday (on the liquid color chart).
I do think I need to get one more chunk of LR. My mission today is to get some more... LOL

The fish are doing great.
Thank all!

 

[Krish]

Just remember the more liverock you add, the more possibility you will have of experiencing another "cycle" as you may experience some die-off from the rock. This is why it is suggested to add all the rock you want to use when first starting up so that it can cycle it all together and you can be done with it. If you are adding in just base rock, then you wouldn't have any issues. You will just be providing a place/surface area for the necessary beneficial bacteria to grow and so therefore you wouldn't have to worry about potential die-off. On that same note though, depending on the stability of your system and the amount of rock you are adding, you may not notice any impact with adding more liverock even if you experience some die-off which usually takes place in a mature system that has been up and running for a while. In your case though, where you are still reading traces of nitrite means your tank is still in the early stages and hasn't completed the initial cycle yet (initial cycle = when all traces of ammonia and nitrite have dropped off to zero and remain there) so adding in the new rock whether it is liverock or whatever shouldn't impact things too much as the tank still has a ways to go to complete the initial cycle. I'd put the rock in ASAP though if going with liverock so that you can cycle the entire tank one time and be done with it.

Just my personal opinion...Good luck!

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Krish, truly awesome writing. The only thing I would add, do ANY changes slowly if fish are present.
If fish are stressed, do the absolute minimum of changes such as fresh salt water and fresh rinsed carbon.
If no fish in the display, do it all, and I mean ALL at once and get all the cycling over with.

 

[Krish]

Krish, truly awesome writing. The only thing I would add, do ANY changes slowly if fish are present.
If fish are stressed, do the absolute minimum of changes such as fresh salt water and fresh rinsed carbon.
If no fish in the display, do it all, and I mean ALL at once and get all the cycling over with.

Thanks Mike!!

 

[kpiotrowski]

I would like to clarify the defintion of "cycle". to me, the "cycle" is ammonia, nitrite, nitrate( and possibly anaerobic bacteria that transform nitrate). once you have nitrate you have cycled your tank meaning you have all the different types of bacteria in your sytem...but it may not be in balance yet. Just because you have a nitrite spike doesn't mean the tank is not cylced, just not balanced. there are many things you can do to disturb the "balance" like, add too much of a bioload at once, clean too much of the biofilter, or allow detrius to build...over feed etc. adding live rock to a tank that is not balanced is the wrong way to go in that the potiental to disrupt that balance even more is pretty much emminent. I would chill out, don't overfeed, provide good water flow and oxygenation ( bacteria use alot of o2) and watch the nitrite disapear over the next 72 hours...magiacally all by itself ( because I belive your tank is cycled, just out of balance due to the recent heavy cleaning)

assuming that is I have a the right idea of what you are seeing.

if you put new live rock in....take it out! REGARDLESS! and wait for your tank to stabilize before adding it in small increments.

 

[Krish]

There is a difference between a "cycle" and the "intial cycle". Any tank, even a mature tank can have a "mini cycle" when something goes out of whack, but it's not common from anything I've ever seen, for you to start reading ammonia and nitrite again (especially on a mature tank). Usually in a case like this you will see an algae bloom or something from increased nitrate levels, but hardly ever do ammonia and nitrite levels re-appear. All tanks need to find their balance and it took my tank a full year to do this. My intial cycle was completed about 2 months in. The initial cycle being ammonia rising and then as it is converted into nitrite by one type of aerobic bacteria, it will begin to fall off as nitrites levels shoot up. Once this occurs, another aerobic bateria steps in and starts to break down nitrite into less toxic nitrate. Once you have reached this point where both ammonia and nitrite levels had risen and then fell off to a zero reading and remains there for a few days, then your know your initial cycle is complete. This is the point at which you can start to introduce fish into the tank slowly. From here, you are left with nitrates and it's through your tank maturing and building up the necessary beneficial anaerobic bacterial colonies that these nitrates can be worked off through biological filtration. Once you get these numbers down to zero, this is when you know your tank has found it's balance and can be considered completely cycled. With that said, things change within a tank from time to time as new fish, corals, inverts etc are added and in some cases you may have things die. During these times, the tank will have to adjust to either the increased bioload or decreased bioload and you may experience a mini cycle, but hardly ever will you see ammonia or nitrite re-surface on a mature tank. A newly setup tank is a different story as they don't have the stability a mature tak does.

Anyway, that's my personal thoughts on it. Obviously the tank isn't balanced or matured yet if nitrites are reading so if you want to add in more liverock this would be the time to do it IMO. Waiting till the tank has balanced and adding it afterwards will basically be like you are starting all over again if you experience a lot of die-off so now would be the time. I'd get all the rock you want to put in there in there, let the thing cycle out all together one time and be done with it. Either that or you could cure the liverock in a seperate container and once it is completely cured you could toss it in the tank at any time as there would be nothing left to die-off in the tank so no issues to worry about. Either that or add base rock at any time.

As mentioned, just my personal opinion and not "gospel". Many ways to do things so go with what works for you.