Water Temperature ....Please Help

[Ichthys]

OK, got a bit of a worrisome issue. This summer I punched holes in my bedroom wall and plumbed thru it into the garage. My 55gal DT is in the bedroom and on the other side of the wall is the garage which contains a 40 gallon sump and a 10 gallon fuge. I have 2heaters in my sump, a 200W and a 300W. Temperature in the Display Tank has stayed fairly constant around 77.4.
As the weather turns colder I have noticed the temp in my DT in the mornings is down to 76.1 it is not till afternoon when the lights have been on for a while that temp comes back up. The garage is NOT heated or insulated.

Long tern goal is to insulate the structure i built in the garage which holds the fuge and sump with 1 inch styrofoam board.

How cold do you all think I can allow outside temps to drop and have my tank still maintain an acceptable temperature before I have to add some supplemental heating, either to the sump, or to the garage itsef.

So in review, we have about 85 gallons of water volume circulating through the system, the sump and fuge are both glass and exposed to cold evening temperature. They are both glass and so conduct well. I know other people keep tanks in garages or basements, what is your experience when outside temps drop into the 30's and 40's? Are regular tank heaters able to keep up? Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Ichthys

 

[Krish]

I have the opposite problem to your problem where I live. Can't seem to keep the water cool enough here! I'm figuring that maybe building something around the tanks/containers exposed to the cold air may be an option. I remember one of the ways I was able to the lower the temp on one of my setups was allowing the stand where the sump was to breathe by removing the back off of the stand so I'd figure putting something to enclose it a bit should help some warm it up some

Just a few thoughts...Here's a bump back to the top to see if you can get some help from people who actually live in a cold place

 

[thatguy559]

i have all my stuff i nthe garage right now and when i get my tank re setup in the house with the sump and fuge in the garage i plan on making a wood enclosure with insulating foam lining it. as of right now my temp swings are stable with the new garage door seals (all the way around) i can take pictures later if you need to see what im talking about. and i used great stuff pond foam to fill in all the cracks ie windows, where drywall meets concrete.

 

[jrgilles]

If you want a temporary solution to this, get some double face tape and surround the sump tank (the sides anyway) with styrofoam...

Seems this will make it way way more insulated until you have time to finish it. Wouldn't cost anything to do.

I just bought some new furniture, so if you need styrofoam, I can hook you up.

Its really a great insulator. I also have tons of styrofoam coolers at work that could be cut up.

 

[danno14]

Also consider a layer of bubblewrap on the surface of your sump. It will aid with insulation, but more importantly cuts down on evaporation- which is the water simply giving up its heat energy.

Heating the sump will be expensive.... the garage - even more so.

 

[rayjay]

Also consider a layer of bubblewrap on the surface of your sump. It will aid with insulation, but more importantly cuts down on evaporation- which is the water simply giving up its heat energy.

Heating the sump will be expensive.... the garage - even more so.

BUT, it ALSO cuts down on gas exchange which IMO is necessary especially when the house is all closed up for winter heating or summer cooling.
As for temporary insulation of the tank, don't for get to insulate the bottom, especially if it sits on cement.
I had extra heaters hooked to a timer so that when lights were off, the extra heaters plugged into the timer would come on to try to help maintain the temperature.
I ended up dismantling the system as it proved to be still problem-some to control and the cost of hydro was going up.

 

[jrgilles]

yea, thats why I was thinking insulate the sides, leave the top open, add another heater in....

 

[danno14]

BUT, it ALSO cuts down on gas exchange which IMO is necessary especially when the house is all closed up for winter heating or summer cooling.

Glad you are using this mentality, but permit me to offer additional info for consideration:

The OP is dealing with a sump that has less than 6 square feet of surface are for gas (O2) exchange. Probably closer to 4. Anyone care to guess how much surface area there might exist in the air bubbles inside the skimmer? Even with a skimmer as small as he is running, you are looking at hundreds of square feet, replaced/replenished each minute. O2 exchange should me only minimally affected by what I roiginally suggested.
Rgds,
Dan

 

[rayjay]

Glad you are using this mentality, but permit me to offer additional info for consideration:

The OP is dealing with a sump that has less than 6 square feet of surface are for gas (O2) exchange. Probably closer to 4. Anyone care to guess how much surface area there might exist in the air bubbles inside the skimmer? Even with a skimmer as small as he is running, you are looking at hundreds of square feet, replaced/replenished each minute. O2 exchange should me only minimally affected by what I roiginally suggested.
Rgds,
Dan

Sorry Dan, but very little gas exchange takes place with bubbles, in a skimmer or in a tank. The bubbles have a surface tension that prevents that exchange from occurring.
This topic was covered many years ago on Reef Central as well as another forum that I can't specifically remember right now but I think it was Marine Depot.
With air bubbles in a tank, the only way they improve things is by increasing the amount of turbulence at the water's surface where the true exchange is occurring if the air isn't already too laden with CO2.
My skimmers are six foot tall counter current with airstones 2X2X7 inches and are powered by linear compressors.
I still have low pH problems when the house is shut up and the HRV shut off, especially if I don't have good surface turmoil.
MY SKIMMERS

 

[Frankie]

Good posts by all.
The majority of oxygen exchange is happening over the display tank anyhow.
Unfortunately being in Washington your goings to have a huge swing in temperature while housing your filtration in an uninsulated garage.
I like the idea Rob had but will take it further a bit.

You can build a room around the filtration using thick mm plastic found at most hardware stores. This will keep the frost from entering and keep the heat in enough for a stable temperature. The smaller the room the better. You can even buy a zipper for this room and have an easy entry and exit. here is a link:
http://www.norkan.com/Norkan_Store/...ducts_id=370&zenid=d68bdj02cf7pnq6rbapibvsc67

 

[jrgilles]

Good posts by all.
The majority of oxygen exchange is happening over the display tank anyhow.
Unfortunately being in Washington your goings to have a huge swing in temperature while housing your filtration in an uninsulated garage.
I like the idea Rob had but will take it further a bit.

You can build a room around the filtration using thick mm plastic found at most hardware stores. This will keep the frost from entering and keep the heat in enough for a stable temperature. The smaller the room the better. You can even buy a zipper for this room and have an easy entry and exit. here is a link:
http://www.norkan.com/Norkan_Store/...ducts_id=370&zenid=d68bdj02cf7pnq6rbapibvsc67

Yea, I was thinking of suggestiong that. Hang some plastic. Could make a door by having 2 sheets that overlap a foot or so, and you can separate and go in to the room.

Would add an extra layer of insulation. Could even hang some cardboard boxes or something. Then I didn't post that because it maybe seemed too crazy