Water top-off tank with automation

[DonW]

Here is my current tank/automation project. This tank will be used to feed the kalk reactor. Its a 4 gallon acrylic tank with two float switches. The floats activate a latched relay that allow the tank to drain down before it refills, this saves on ro membranes. Each time the tank fills it counts 1 and displays the fill count on a lcd counter display. The same counter trigger will trigger counter 1 in the automation controller program. When the counter reaches a preset number the system will shut down and will require a reset. This is a visual indicator that its time to change the rodi filters. Eventually the shut down will be tied into the TDS which will also shut down the system in event there is a membrane failure.

Don

 

[DonW]

Changed my mind. Much easier and cheaper with a rs232 lcd display for all monitoring.

Don

 

[jake65]

I vote Don for the next Noble prize award winner...lol

 

[aquariumdebacle]

Gonna hafta explain that one to the "rest of us!"

 

[DonW]

Gonna hafta explain that one to the "rest of us!"

Ok, I use a Applied Digital controller. It stores and runs a logic application that any one can program, as long as you can read. The controller can run a huge network of IO modules. The most common is the SECU16 as in my schematic. It can see 8 4-20ma, 1-5v, and CC and has 8 low power relays. The one in my schematic will run many things on the system not just the top-off.
The diagram for my top off tank is pretty basic. If you add the secu16 it can be much more. One of my concerns was rodi filter change intervals and floods are always a concern. I can program in some code that for example will display "time to change filters" after the container has refilled 50 times. I can code in a failsafe that will only let the res fill twice in 24 hrs. I can display how many times per day it attempted to fill, even if it wasnt allowed. I'm going to integrate a TDS probe. If my membrane need attention the system will know it. It will be able to tell for example, if TDS is a little high no big deal just displays a message or if the membrane ruptures shut down top-off all together. Basicly it just ties together everything that we already ues everyday anyways. Makes adding features a cheap and easy and pretty much only limited by your imagination.

Don

 

[BobinCovington]

Don, I am impressed with your logical system engineering skills. I am still working on the basics of my sump (using your 29 tank, thank you) and plumbing, but when I get to the kalkwasser/top-off portion of the project, you can expect some technical questions from me

PS I am trying to tackle the Passat timing belt myself this weekend...we'll see if I have a running car on Monday.

Bob

 

[DonW]

PS I am trying to tackle the Passat timing belt myself this weekend...we'll see if I have a running car on Monday.

Bob

Just be careful, make sure the marks are dead on. Bent valves will cost you big $$

Don

 

[Ohgee]

Don,
I was wondering if you had ever looked at the newer Allen Bradley home style controllers? They are a little spendy but very reliable. I have a lot of experience programming and wiring these units and was wondering if they were simular to what your using.

Just a little curious and actually looking for something a little cheaper to use. As I love to automate as much as possible.

Duane

 

[DonW]

Don,
I was wondering if you had ever looked at the newer Allen Bradley home style controllers? They are a little spendy but very reliable. I have a lot of experience programming and wiring these units and was wondering if they were simular to what your using.

Just a little curious and actually looking for something a little cheaper to use. As I love to automate as much as possible.

Duane

Man, that stuff is expensive and is for commercial process control. The Applied Digital is just as reliable for a fraction of the cost.
Ocelot is only $189 you only need one for the entire network.
SECU16 is $87 and gives you 8 IO and 8 relays
SECU16I is $90 and gives you 16 IO
Three or four modules will give you enough IO and relay controls to just about every aspect of any home and a extremely automated reef system. Its a 2 wire newtwork 4 if you use a shared 12v power supply. The beauty is the simplicity, you dont need to be a electronics guru or a programmer just creative.
If your house has an alarm system you can tie the SECU16I to the panel and use all the NC sensors. The motion can be used for occupancy. Tie it to your thermostat and add a $5 LM34 or two and you get full control of your hvac system. A $2 thermister will control fans over your reef and a $1 photo cell can verify and control your halides. I could go on all day, its endless but very easy.

Don

 

[Scooterman]

That is the way to go Don, I like them for a home project, I think I want to set up a trap for when someone tries to break into my house, something with a 10k coil to give them a zap while breaking through a window

 

[DonW]

That is the way to go Don, I like them for a home project, I think I want to set up a trap for when someone tries to break into my house, something with a 10k coil to give them a zap while breaking through a window

You could just charge up a capacitor, that should knock someone for a loop. You see what I'm talking about the posibilities are many. From crazy to truely useful.

Don

 

[dnjan]

The floats activate a latched relay that allow the tank to drain down before it refills, this saves on ro membranes.

Could you elaborate? Do frequent pressurizations/depressurations tend to damage RO membranes? Makes sense, but I just haven't heard of that before.

 

[Ohgee]

Man, that stuff is expensive and is for commercial process control. The Applied Digital is just as reliable for a fraction of the cost.
Ocelot is only $189 you only need one for the entire network.
SECU16 is $87 and gives you 8 IO and 8 relays
SECU16I is $90 and gives you 16 IO
Don

Ya it is expensive, but all I have ever worked with I am actually an industrial programmer.

I wish you lived closer I would love to meet with you and get to know the system a little. Sounds like a great processor and a very reasonable price. Maybe I need to download some manuals and see what I can learn.

 

[DonW]

Could you elaborate? Do frequent pressurizations/depressurations tend to damage RO membranes? Makes sense, but I just haven't heard of that before.

Supposedly if you run the membrane for 1/2g here and there its bad for them and shortens their life. Have you ever noticed you get better flow 15 minutes after you start the ro. I think it has something to do with keeping the membrane saturated.

Don

 

[DonW]

Ya it is expensive, but all I have ever worked with I am actually an industrial programmer.

I wish you lived closer I would love to meet with you and get to know the system a little. Sounds like a great processor and a very reasonable price. Maybe I need to download some manuals and see what I can learn.

You dont need me this stuff is easy. They have downloadable manuals and you can download the software for free on their website. You can play with the C-max software without actually running the hardware.
If you lie to it and tell it you have one of each module it will allow all the logic features. You be able to see how easy it is to write the program.

Don

 

[dnjan]

Supposedly if you run the membrane for 1/2g here and there its bad for them and shortens their life. Have you ever noticed you get better flow 15 minutes after you start the ro. I think it has something to do with keeping the membrane saturated.

Don

Thanks for the information. I have never noticed a difference in flow after 15 minutes, but I usually turn on the water, stick the outlet hose into a bucket, and go turn the TV. And then turn off the water when I go to bed (most of the time ...).

 

[DonW]

All done ready to install.

 

[DonW]

The 9 pin connector failed the swing it around my the wires test. It also failed the yank on it by the wires test. The soldered terminals pull out of the plastic when being abused. I changed it over to D-sub and now handles user abuse.

Don

 

[Greek Reef]

Hi Don, I must admitt that all this sounds amazing. I have little to no knowledge on these topics however and I would like to educate myself a bit. Can you suggest a link so I can start reading up on the topic of tank automation with these controllers and I/O modules?

I got my paws on the Ocelot and Secu16 manuals, but a lot sounds 'Greek' to me.

 

[DonW]

If you have the manual's you can see the connections. Automation is really simple. For the most part you need a signal and then you act on that signal.
Signals are easy to get from what we already use. The easiest example is a top-off system. Most of the time they are low voltage, that makes it easier.
If you use a relay, that 12v switch can be used for the signal. That in turn is used to trigger a action. You can also use sensors, like float switches with no power or relays. Best example is a high level float switch that would make contact closure across a secu16 input. That in turn would be processed by the Ocelot to be acted apon. Make sense?

Don