Waterlife Octozin?

[wayne in norway]

Unfortunately I have found in the last year I have had to treat a strain of ich that I could not shift as an SG of 1.009 at 25C. Eventually I used copper - if I had to treat a fish that was sensitive to copper that had ich like this I do not know what I would do. I think I would try metronidazole rather than garlic, but that's just my opinion.

My own experiences with trying out garlic are that it is wholly ineffective. And inconsist is better than ineffective for me, though both are far from ideal

 

[Terry B]

It is possible that you came across a strain of C.I that was resistant to a specific gravity of 1.009, but that would be unusual. What did you measure the salinity with? Lets talk about salinity rather than specific gravity. What was the salinity at? How long did you use hypo?

For future reference, the only copper medication that I trust with sensitive fish is Cupramine by Seachem. I would not use any other copper.

Terry B

 

[NaH2O]

Terry - when treating with copper, do you have to test for copper level in the system to make sure you are getting the correct dose level in the water? I am very unfamiliar with using copper.

 

[steve-s]

Copper should always be tested several times a day to be sure the concentration is maintained properly. Always avoid adding CaCO3 based producst and the more obvious resins/carbons. Cupramine as well as being the most tolerated is also the more stable of the copper treatments offered in the trade. As long as ammonia binders (detoxifiers) are not used, it is the least likely to degrade unlike chelates and the worst of all ionic salts. Your biggest concern being water changes and avoiding the "guess work" of maintaining the concentration in those regards. I find the easiest method there is dose the change water before adding to the tank as it can be tested to the right concentration rather than estimating on a diluted Cu solution in the QT. I find it best to mark the pail used in black felt QT- copper only to avoid mistakes.

One large concern with copper as well is ensuring the correct test kit. Ionic, chelates and amine based all have different requirements and often specialized tests for each. An innacurate test can obviously make matters much worse.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Terry B]

I agree with everything that Steve said. If you need to make water changes durng copper treatment it complicates keeping the copper level constant. If you have a cycled quarantine tank then you may not have to make a water change during the treatment. I have tested Cupramine twice a day for the first 10 days to two weeks. Then I test once a day. If you haven't made a water change then the copper level will begin to stablize after that. If you are making water changes during treatment then the copper level is not going to stabliize. This should all be done in a tank without substrate or rock. I use PVC pipe with a air driven sponge filter or an outside filter with a biowheel for biological filtration. Unfortunately, most people don't keep a cycled Qtank running at all times. It would sure help more fish to survive because they don't have to deal with poor water quality along with the disease.

Terry B

 

[wayne in norway]

Terry - to be pedantic I did not measure the salinity - I measured the SG at a given temperature, and this crossplots against a salinity assuming some properties of the solution. I odn't have a graph to hand to tell you what 1.009 at 25C works out as approximate salinity

This ich variant really was tough to shift. The offending fish was a Cirrhilabrid wrasse, and it would spend 4 - 6 weeks in hypo before I ould start to raise salinity, and 'bing' white spots within a few days. After three cycles of this I used Cupramine. this was all in a bare bottom QT. The fish is now fine by the way.

 

[Terry B]

Plastic swing arm type hydrometers are notoriously innaccurate. It is crucial that the salinity is measured accurately. If you did not administer hyposalinity correctly then the treatment cannot succeed.

Glad to hear that the fish is doing fine now.
Terry B

 

[wayne in norway]

Sorry , forgot to mention - I have/use a lab grade calibrated hydrometer - I believe this to be quite accurate.

Hyposalinity is still my treatment of choice, but I don't believe it's as effective as copper, though it is far less dangerous to use. I just like to know what my (effective) options are.

 

[Terry B]

Yes, there is that rare occasion to run across a strain resistant to hypo. However, I still prefer hypo as my first choice of treatment because it is safer, doesn't poison the fish and does not suppress immune function. Cupramine is a good backup or the transfer method. The transfer method requires a lot of handling and a bit of skill to avoid injury and stress. Was your lab grade hydrometer calibrated for reef type temperatures. Many lab grade hydrometers are calibrated for 60F.

Terry B

Terry B

 

[wayne in norway]

One of these ....

http://www.brannan.co.uk/products/hyd_bs718.html

Adjusted to 20 degrees, but you have to convert fomr density to SG