Well water usage

[jimicasper]

I have an odd scenario. I need to make reef ready water from a well. No city water is available at the location where my tanks are going to be set up. Without buying an F450 with a huge tank and trucking it in is there a way to purify well water for use? If so did/do you have to use a iron removal, softner, or any other similar systems before your ro or di resin? Any help would be much appreciated as I seem it hard to find any concrete evidence. Thanks Jimi

 

[azgard1]

I would be interested in this also. For one thing I would expect to process RO would be very difficult, as the membrane would constantly clog with lime.

 

[fly guy]

it depends on the well but unless you have a really awful one it wont be any harder on your ro/di than many peoples tap water. Test the TDS of it and it will give you an idea.

im lucky, my well is at the base of the cascades and about 40 tds give or take right out of the tap.

 

[Scooterman]

Yes you can do well water, you will need a few more pre filters but it can be done. It would be good to get a general testing done with a list of what's in it. Depending on well pressure, you may need a booster pump also. I'd give thefilterguys.com a call tell them what you have & see what extra pre-filters you'll need.

 

[NaH2O]

*moved to the chemistry forum for Boomer's input

 

[Boomer]

If so did/do you have to use a iron removal, softner, or any other similar systems before your ro or di resin?

I agree with others. However, you should first get the well water tested to see where you are at, so you are not buying unnecessary equipment. Also, as stated or hinted what is the well water pressure at the tap ? And once we get there I will send you to Jim at the Filter Guys to make sure you are fixed up correctly and with no BS as to what you need or don't need.

 

[OldFishMan]

Hello;

I know a lot of people who use well water for their tanks. I would check the pressure of the water as it is the limiting factor in output per day on a clean RO unit. Volume makes no difference as you are outputting a small amount of water.

You don't have to worry about Chlorine but, a 5-micron pre-filter, then Carbon as most setups have should do. Well water out away from town with little agriculture should be clean. Most well water has to be tested monthly.

A 3-pack of pre-filters is like $20.00. 1-micron may be too small with large hard water salts and may plug up quickly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It has to be right, I read it somewhere!"

"OFM"


Enjoy!

OFM

 

[Boomer]

Well water out away from town with little agriculture should be clean. Most well water has to be tested monthly.

Any many are not clean and often very high in CO2 which depletes the DI. If most were clean as you stated why would they need to be tested every month. You are more or less contradicting your own statement.

 

[dnjan]

Most well water has to be tested monthly.

I'm curious - what parts of the country require monthly tests of well-water for individual household wells? I grew up in Northern Illinois, and I believe that our water was tested once in 20 years.

 

[OldFishMan]

Well, fellas -- scare everyone to death if you want. I have lived in 5-states and everywhere well water was used in the past 20-years it was mandatory for either a monthly or bi-monthly well test.

There is a little catch --- if it is your well and is not public you are not usually required to test.


OFM

 

[burning2nd]

im confused.

Im on well water, for 3 years now... RoDI from the filter guys...

www.thefilterguys.com

 

[Boomer]

There is a little catch --- if it is your well and is not public you are not usually required to test.

Yes that is correct. The issue at hand is most do not consider the term "well water" as that from a public supply, such as a large aquifer. To most, "well water " is that which is drawn form ones own yard.

In public works systems the amount of monitoring and testing is dependant on the water source, the population served and EPA past violations, if any.

http://www.epa.gov/privatewells/index2.html

 

[burning2nd]

330feet 1600Gpm is our well pump.. we also have a hole house water softener,

we have it tested every 5 years or so.

 

[Boomer]

Well, then that is all good

 

[mmn_usn]

boomer... explain to me the whole co2 depleting the DI.. I work with RO/DI units at work and have never heard of this. The only things that are for sure is that we heat the water to around 70 and that water that has been treated with either bromine or chlorine has to pass through a carbon filter before going to the RO unit. we also have 5-micron filters that the water goes through.

I know that the DI collects Ionic compounds positive or negative...please refresh my chemistry.

Thanks
Nate

 

[Boomer]

Sure Nate

CO2 is a gas and passes right through a RO. When it gets to the other side it gets hydrated and forms carbonic acid as the water is depleted from the RO from buffers ands other ions and causes a shift in pH. This reaction continues and gives H + and HCO3-. The CO2 is now in the form of HCO3- anion or negatively charge ion. It then hits the anion bed, which has OH-, where the HCO3- is exchanged for a OH- ion in the resin, thus depleting the anion bed.

CO2 + H2O ------>H2CO3 ------> H+ + HCO3-

The anion bed was...

OH- OH- OH- OH- OH-
OH- OH- OH- OH- OH-

and now starts to become


HCO3-- OH- OH- HCO3- OH-
HCO3- OH- OH- HCO3- HCO3-

until it is full of HCO3-

To calculate the effects of CO2 on DI depletion, divide the CO2 RO water concentration in ppm by the sum of the CO2 in ppm plus the RO TDS in ppm. For example, if you have 5 ppm TDS RO output and 3 ppm CO2 in your RO output water, you are wasting 3/8 or 37.5 % of your anion DI capacity on CO2 removal alone. CO2 can be calculated by just know the dKH of the RO and its pH.

CO2 (in PPM) = 3 x KH x ^10(7-pH)
where KH is dKH in degrees.

A hand calculator requires no math for this.

Chuck's Planted Aquarium CO2 Calculator with Tables
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

(NOTE do not try to use this equation or calculator to try and figure out the CO2 in your SW tank, as it is a different equation for it and the same for the calcualor, as the calcualor is a function of the equation given above )


Example, pH 7.1 and 1 dKH = ~ 3 ppm CO2

 

[Boomer]

bromine or chlorine

What happens here is the bromine or chlorine reacts with the carbon surface, oxidation, with the production of some CO*. Thus, the bromine or chlorine is reduced to bromide or chloride, which the RO/DI then removes.

 

[tallguy64]

Hey, soo im Very interested in this because i am too running off a well, And have a few questions about a few things (not tring to hijake the thread =P)

So first At what average temp and what average PSI are RO fillters most efficeint? I have looked and looked for this everywhere but all i get is a ranged from 40 psi to 250 or something like that... The reason i ask this is i am running at like 40psi and haveing a hard time keeping the water warm... so im tring to figure out if a booster pump is worth it? Becuase right now im outputing at about 5 to 10 gpd, Is this because the temp or water prressure? (it currently has a 50gpd ro fillter that i at least once per day allow to flush for a hour or so)

also a question on TDS, i recently purchased an inline dual meter. The incomeing is roughly 60 to 70, and the out put is 0 good obiusly then it passes through the DI, so my question is this, could there still be remaining stuff in the water? We recently had the water tested and was told it was within the normal range for everything of coarse at the time i didnt think about asking for the numbers (brain fart/ hadnt started the aquarium yet)

Thnx for the info

Tyler

 

[Boomer]

Tyler

First, RO psi max eff. is partly a function of the RO design and materials. Some RO's are up to 600 psi. In all cases the higher the water pressure the more efficient it is. Most RO's in this hobby are either 50 psi or 100 psi but by far most are 100 psi. You need to know what yours is so you don't blow it out. The avg house static pressure is 50-60 psi. This will drop as soon as you open any water value to include the RO unit, where it may now be an avg of 40 -50 psi. Some houses may be down to 30 psi. If you are getting only 40 psi you really need a booster pump. which will end up paying for itself , as there will be less waste water. It is best to look at the RO input pressure on the line when the RO is running. Is that 40 psi from that ? Almost anytime you open a water line it will loose static pressure. Static pressure is when all lines are closed.

RO unit max output is based on max temp, max pressure and max feed flow rate. The temp for most is ~ 110F. When trying to control the water temp one needs to be careful. If you for example you tried to run it at 90F and someone goes and flushes the toilet the RO input water could be cold water deprived and the temp may go well above 110 F. If this happens you will "toast" the RO membrane.

The incomeing is roughly 60 to 70, and the out put is 0 good obiusly then it passes through the DI, so my question is this, could there still be remaining stuff in the water?

What do you mean by obviously the output is 0. It is not 0 unless you check it and it says it is 0. If it measures 0 you are doing very well and better than most on a RO output reading and your DI is like a back-up if something goes wrong. As far as anything still in the water, yes but it is not anything to worry about. If it reads 0 you are good. There is no such thing as 0 TDS really, as there is no such thing as 100 % pure water.

 

[mmn_usn]

So how much CO2 is in normal tap water?

What about using stream water?