Wet Dry - Questions

[mac9804]

I have read that wetdrys are not good for reef tanks. Why is that? Should I consider moving the rock from my wetdry into the main tank and not use the wetdry any more?

Thanks,


42 gallon hex
Wet dry / 10 gallon sump
Urchin Skimmer
30 lbs live rock
Several different types of mushrooms and zoos
Flame Angel
Maroon Clown
Coral Banded shrimp

 

[cwby416]

The Bio Balls in the wet dry are nitrate factory's, thats why most reefers take them out and just use the sump for equipment and refugiums (if there is room)

 

[mac9804]

So the rock shouldn't cause any issues? Would there be any harm in moving some of the rock from the sump into the main tank?

Thanks

 

[mmkeeper]

How long has it been setup? Are you cycled? If it is cycled you can move it. you could just remove the boiballs and use the wetdry as a sump.

 

[Reeferdude]

For years now I have heard the same argument about wet dry systems. I respect the opinions of other reefers however I do not subscribe to that line of thinking. Reason. I have a wet dry system set up right now. For the last 3 years my system has had no notable or detectable amounts of ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, phosphate...Nothing. Although many reefers believe this to be true (nitrate factories) I wonder if that belief is rooted in personal experience of system failures and evidence pointing to bio balls, or merely stories. I think the consensus is that they are bad and that belief in and of itself perpetuates the negativity. It all boils down to maintenance IMHO. Any piece of equipment can become a nitrate factory if maintenance is deferred...

 

[mac9804]

The tank has been setup for about a year now, with no real problems. Just to clarify, I don't have any bio balls in the wetdry, just rock.

I think I am going to move the rock up into the main tank. That will clear up a lot of room in the sump and make working down there a little easier.

Thanks,

 

[blind1993]

wet drys are good things to have without the bio balls because they hide all the equip, add more stability to the aquarium, and provide as a hospital for fish.

 

[drummereef]

From personal experience I say this.... Wet/dry filtration isn't the best for reefs because of how inefficient they are at breaking down nitrate. They do a great job breaking down ammonia and nitrite, but are terrible when it comes to nitrate. Over time this will become a serious issue. A simple sump with a skimmer and possibly a baffled area for a fuge would be perfect for a reef tank.

 

[Krish]

The thing with wet/dry's is they have no anaerobic zones to perform denitrification (which is the process by which denitrifying batceria convert nitrates into nitrogen gas) so what that means is the end product of a wet/dry is nitrates. The main problem with wet/dry's are they are very very efiicient at what they do...Convert ammonia produced by waste etc into nitrite and then into nitrate in a very short amount of time. However, over time, if not cared for properly, you can end up with an accumilation of nitrates which is why people don't suggest them for reef tanks where nitrates can pose a problem.

 

[DonW]

I dont like rock in a sump area. The rock does not get enough flow all the way around and under so it ends up building up detritus. Any time you have oxygen there is potential for a nitrate factory wether its LR or bio balls.

Don

 

[Reeferdude]

In one of my previous systems I used a sump, calcium reactor, large skimmer ect. I chose the wet dry for my current system for a couple reasons.

I wanted a way to remove solids (fish poo, excess food ect) before they broke down. Easy to do with the wet dry. I wanted to increase dissolved oxygen which the bio balls seem to do well. For me, I wasn't looking for the wet dry to add any bio filtration because I've got 780GPH running through a very small pro75. The water runs through the wet dry like crap through a Goose. I left that function up to the live rock and refugium.

I think it's all about experience and how you maintain any system. And like I mentioned earlier. Three years and NO nitrates.

 

[DonW]

In one of my previous systems I used a sump, calcium reactor, large skimmer ect. I chose the wet dry for my current system for a couple reasons.

I wanted a way to remove solids (fish poo, excess food ect) before they broke down. Easy to do with the wet dry. I wanted to increase dissolved oxygen which the bio balls seem to do well. For me, I wasn't looking for the wet dry to add any bio filtration because I've got 780GPH running through a very small pro75. The water runs through the wet dry like crap through a Goose. I left that function up to the live rock and refugium.

I think it's all about experience and how you maintain any system. And like I mentioned earlier. Three years and NO nitrates.

So your thinking that since the flow through the bioballs is so high that it cant be or become a biofilter?

Don

 

[Reeferdude]

Partially. The intent was to avoid a build up therefore reducing the likelihood of becoming one. Think of it this way. If there is no buildup they, (bio balls) are nothing but plastic similar to just keeping them clean, just plastic. So far so good.

 

[DonW]

Partially. The intent was to avoid a build up therefore reducing the likelihood of becoming one. Think of it this way. If there is no buildup they, (bio balls) are nothing but plastic similar to just keeping them clean, just plastic. So far so good.

Good theory but its not accurate. Are you aware that even the glass your tank is made of is a biofilter.
What you have is a wet dry that is creating nitrates that your LR and or dsb are having to remove. Saturation is the real problem not the day to day issues.

Don

 

[Reeferdude]

With all due respect Don it seems your quest to be constantly correct is impairing your ability to reason. You know nothing of my system and to debate it's efficiency is somewhat perplexing.

Please focus like a laser beam. I wrote "reducing the likelihood of becoming one". Reducing. As in: A "reduction" of the "possibility". Your, "the glass in your tank" comparison is a poor example at best. The only way a piece of glass can become a bio filter is for it to be neglected long enough for it to grow a means of filtration such as algae.

The one thing I've learned in the hobby is there is nothing set in stone. Furthermore, I didn't come to this site to argue. I came here because it was recommended by good Friend as a place to learn from other reefers experiences and a place to share mine.

I understand completely the propensity to disparage a system that defies conventional wisdom but there is one thing that cannot be denied. The way my system is set up works great! Not theory. FACT!

 

[star rider]

interesting discussion.
my thoughts..

bioballs are used a media for bio-filtration..simply they have increased surface area by design..this in turns allows bacteria more surface to adhere to.
I believe Don is suggesting that glass is also a surface for bacteria to adhere to.
of course the bacteria we are discussing nitrifying bacteria(aerobic bacteria)
the common theory is that increase the amount of durface, increase numbers of bacteria in crease efficiency of filter. the common factor is the waste produced.

mulm of course adds waste that creates/stores nitrates. anaerobic bacteria come into play via dsb and LR.

dead areas create a collection point for mulm as does the surface (by design) of the bio balls.

layers and layers of bioballs can create areas to rap said mulm and thus cause potential for nitrate 'factories'

I suspect by having high flow you can in essence reduce build up..add LR and DSB and soluable nitrates can be converted further via the continuation of the Nitrogen cycle.

I suspect what may be questioned it the potential for build up in the bioballs which have had a history of creating the nitrate factory.
but adding another layer of the nitrogen cycle via dsb and/lr can you keep the nitrates in check ??

intersting.

great discussion.