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noteworthy

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Hello guys,

I have a 125 gallon tank that has only about 80 lbs of live rock in it. Battling a nitrate issue and need some ideas. I have an aqua c remora and a cheap rubbermaid tub to hold my heaters and extra water.


Heres what I'm thinking.



Add:
Standard 55 gallon tank from Petsmart as sump.. add some baffles.. $150
100 lbs base rock - $300
Small bit of more live rock 20 lbs - $140


Do I need a canister filter or anything like that? I have around 20 x waterflow current.

I do want to move my skimmer and add a refugium into the new sump.
 
1 yellow tang
1 diamondback goby (sand sifter)
1 sixline wrasse
1 bicolor blenny
2 percula clowns
2 bar gobies
1 skunk cleaner shrimp
some snails and crabs.
 
Last edited:
$7 a pound for live rock is high, there are several places on line which you can get it for $5/lb delivered to you door, keep in mind it will have to cycle again.
 
Hello guys,

I have a 125 gallon tank that has only about 80 lbs of live rock in it. Battling a nitrate issue and need some ideas. I have an aqua c remora and a cheap rubbermaid tub to hold my heaters and extra water.


Heres what I'm thinking.



Add:
Standard 55 gallon tank from Petsmart as sump.. add some baffles.. $150
100 lbs base rock - $300
Small bit of more live rock 20 lbs - $140


Do I need a canister filter or anything like that? I have around 20 x waterflow current.

I do want to move my skimmer and add a refugium into the new sump.
Few questions!
How old & how deep is your SB, how have you been keeping up with the sb?
How & what process are you changing water & cleaning your tank?
You don't seem to have much to worry about getting lots of LR If your husbandry is of good practice. If you bumped your LR to 150lbs that would help but depending on a few things may not be all that necessary. I have 80lbs of rock in my tank, 125, with an oceanic 55. I had the glass shop drill a 2" hole in the 55 & I had them cut the acrylic for me to add baffles to my sump, about 15$ for the baffles, 12$ to drill & I think around $100 for the oceanic, which has thicker glass than some of th el-chepos tanks. I would not use base rocks as they tend to not be as porous, buy you 50lbs of good LR & cure it well in a tub before adding it to your tank, this will give you time to clean & inspect the LR before hand.
I really think with just the few fish you have most probably algae problems isn't necessary the Lack of LR rather the lack of good husbandry. ;)
Before adding the refugium get your basic set-up working properly, don't try to make too many changes at once. I would not get any canister type filters unless used specifically for cleaning purposes. I would get a few filter socks & while cleaning the tank I would put one on the drain to the sump to catch all the detritus & debris & then after a few hours remove the sock & clean it for next use, don't leave them in the tank. Also you can get a media bag for carbon & run that in your tank replacing it once a month to help polish the water some. Last, if your doing small weekly wc's then over time you need to schedule large volume wc's, like 25 or 30 gallons at once. When you do small changes you replace some of the very same water each time & not really changing all older water, Larger WC's are much more beneficial in stabilizing your system.
 
The sand bed is about 10 months old.

I usually brew up a 30 gallon trash can full of RODI and add oceanic salt to 1.23-1.25. Get it at room temp which is around 80 degrees.


As far as cleaning the sand I have a diamondback that loves to dig and chomp through the sand bed. I did have a some snails but they didn't survive long.

I usually pull 30 gallons out of the display and replace it with the new water every month.


What else do I need to be doing? The sandbed looks pretty clean. It isn't but 1-2 inches deep.

The main issue is the aquarium back wall and rocks covered in algae. Almost like a peach fuzz.

As far as the rock I just think I can pick out pieces locally better. Actually at $7.35 a lb I might be better off buying online for $5 shipped. I'm not sure where too buy the stuff online tho.

I have never used the filter socks on my aquarium. As far as cleaning the walls I use a magnet scrubber. What else do I need to be doing?

Do I need to run carbon or phosban (nitrate remover?) in some sort of hob or canister filter?

I've never really thought about inspecting the live rock I buy. I've always bought it and put it in the tank within a couple of hours of purchase. Pack the rock in styrofoam chests with wet newspapers on them.


Where did you get your oceanic for 100 dollars?!?

I will need to modify my stand and I would like to polyurethane it. Building a new canopy is on the list but that isn't a big necessity.


I have about 60 gallons of water mixed and will do a change in a couple of days.
 
I think the 80#'s are enough. How's the flow in the tank? A bigger better skimmer along with good water flow will do wonders.
 
I have a RIO HF20 On Each End Of The Tank.


1300 gph on each side blowing to center.

Mag 5 return and The skimmer.
 
I would check your RO/DI. My tank had a nitrate problem like yours once and I found out RODI was broken and more or less a bacteria farm.
 
Well I dont have a TDS meter but I did use my saltwater test on a batch of water I made up last week.

Ammonia - .25 to .5 between the two really
Nitrate - 5


what skimmer would you recommend? aqua medic turbo float 1000 ? i've heard of those up to 250 gallon tanks for 260 with pump.
 
Liverock itself is not going to help you to reduce your nitrates, especially with so much of your plan revolving around dead rock.

The anaerobic bacteria in liverock is what converts the nitrates into gas. Dead rock contains no anaerobic bacteria and the anaerobes can take years and years to develop to a point where it is helpful. Thus adding more liverock while expensive, is not going to affect your nitrate levels.

IMO you would be better off still using that 55g but filling it with a type of macro algae and a couple of clip on lamps.

The macro algae will consume the nitrates as well as help to stabalize pH, and filter out other toxins. It would prevent you from having to upgrade your skimmer as well.

There are a few choices for macro algaes the safest bet being chaetomorpha. it is a relatively fast grower and is very stable. It also has the least risk of making it's way into your display. The second choice would be green grape caulphera. It is a very fast grower and consumes many nitrates. It does have to be pruined more regularly then chaeto, but that just means it's abosorbing more nutrients. This algae is more prone to going sexual, but this can be avoided with using a 24/7 light cycle on the refugium. If your going to use green grape then I would strongly suggest a sponge in between your refugium area and your return pump. Some sponges will prevent the algae transfer, but not the pods. JME

Another biological an very natural method you could do with the 55g is include a seperate area for a DSB that receives no light. If it were me I would put it where the water drains into the sump. Then seperate the DSB area from the refugium area with a piece of black acrylic (just a black baffle). This would be the same as setting up a remote sandbed, like the kind some reefers use in buckets next to there tank. I would put about 10 to 12" of sand in there and make it around 1.5 square feet. Then you could use the first 1.5' as the DSB area, the next 1.5 feet as the refuguim area, and then still have plenty of room for your return pump chamber. Still cheaper and more effective then buying all of that rock.

There are chemical solutions such as Seachem's denitrate, but they require lower flow and are not as effective as the use of macro algaes and DSB IME.

The readings of your source water are also of concern. If the ammonia is reading that high then it is likely the filters on your unit need to be replaced. Ammonia really needs to be at 0. If it is not then you are basically pouring fish pollutants and algae food into your tank everytime you do a water change. The ammonia will break down into nitrite, then into nitrate and then be used by the algae to grow. Your skimmer can pull some of this out, but not nearly all of it, the nuissance algae is a far more effective feeder.

If you are experiencing a major algae problem, keep in mind your tank reading of nitrates is what is left after the algae has consumed it's nitrate food, you are testing the left overs. Without the algae the readings would be much higher.

If you can I would also test your source water and your tank water for phosphates.

Even after you install the refugium, or whatever other equipment you choose to go for then you will still have to contend with the algae in your system. If it is bryopsis then it can be handled with a magnesuim teatment. Basically you rais ethe magnesium level to 1600ppm at 100ppm intervals. Keep the levels there for around 5 days, then stop dosing magnesium until the levels return to normal. During magnesium treatments you will have to keep an eye on Ca and Alk readings as they will greatly fluctuate, usually more addatives are needed of each to maintain stabilitity. Make sure to use magnesium chloride not magnesium sulfate as it will kill inverts.

If it is hair algae then get some turbo snails. i also like to do some manual extraction for hair algae to help speed up the process. I do a WC, keep the discarded water, and then scrub the rocks in the old water to get all the algae of. It doesn't cure it but greatly helps it, especially if the source of the problem is fixed.

I think that's enough rambling for one post, afterall I am new to this site.

HTH, let me know if you have any questions.
 
Very thorough. Thank you and kudos for your help! I will probably buy a 55 gallon to house my rocks and fish while I rebuild my stand for the 55 gallon.
 
I do agree that adding more live rock may not be a cure, it could go either way and nobody can really say for sure that it will or will not help, we dont know enough about your system.
It does not take years to build anarobic bacteria, more like months. Also the most important question is what test kits are you using? What are your nitrate levels? Were you aware that Oceanic salt is high in nitrates? There is probably not any ammonia in your make up water either, chloramines maybe but not ammonia. I think you need to step back and look at the inputs rather than adding equipment.

Don
 
Using an AP test kit.

Did a 50% change and nitrates are at 15 now. Never heard of a salt mix having nitrates in them itself. Probably chloramines registering slightly.


Well I do want the sump for sure and the refugium.

If I can get away with the current skimmer I might want to update my light. I might benefit from something like a euroreef/asm/turboflotor etc.
 
Could one set up a deep sand bed in a cannister filter so as it was a closed system (like I don't want to accidently flood my room)? It seems to me this would be just setting up a nitrate factory.
What is your opinion?
 
Using an AP test kit.

Did a 50% change and nitrates are at 15 now. Never heard of a salt mix having nitrates in them itself. Probably chloramines registering slightly.


Well I do want the sump for sure and the refugium.

If I can get away with the current skimmer I might want to update my light. I might benefit from something like a euroreef/asm/turboflotor etc.

Try using the Saliflert test kits they are more accurate than what your using enough to make a big difference. Salt mixes can be the cause of problems, maybe do a gradual change to IO, you should be better off IMO. Nothing wrong with getting a good skimmer either. The turbofloater will not be enough for your sized tank, go with something like the ER or ASM if your on a budget.
 
Could one set up a deep sand bed in a cannister filter so as it was a closed system (like I don't want to accidently flood my room)? It seems to me this would be just setting up a nitrate factory.
What is your opinion?

You could do a remote dsb but probably not worth the hastle. More like a patch to a problem system.

Don
 
As far as the ASM or ER Skimmers... Would a skimmer rated at my tanks size be efficient? I've heard that most companies boost their tank rated size.
 

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