What size ups for back up power?

[inreef]

Does anyone have experience using a UPS for back up power? they all quote 20 min, but would it last longer if I only ran my pump (8 watts) and 50 watt back up heater? If so which ones work well? I would like to plan for a 4-8 hour outage.

Thanks, Bret

 

[DonW]

I would use marine batteries and a small inverter. UPS supplies are not really all that great. We what we thought was top of the line for our shop security system which is low voltage, needless to say I was pretty disappointed. I ended up hacking in a inverter and a regular car battery to get through the last 24 hrs.

Don

 

[LakeEd]

I 2nd Don's recommendation of a Deep Cycle Marine Battery, and a small Power Inverter. For the total price (about $100ish???), you can't touch even a semi-good UPS, and this should give you about a 6-8 hour backup for a low level load as you are describing.

 

[Meche]

Expanding on this idea... If you bought 2 batteries, and you had someone you knew close to you (with power), you might be able to run indefinatly by always charging the one you aren't currently (haha get it... current :lol: ) using.

You would need:
-2 Batteries
-1 power inverter
-1 battery charger (might already have one for your car?)

 

[cwby416]

by rigging two marine deep cycle battery's with a power inverter, can you also hook up a battery charger to it, so it would actualy be a DIY UPS????

 

[DonW]

by rigging two marine deep cycle battery's with a power inverter, can you also hook up a battery charger to it, so it would actualy be a DIY UPS????

Yes, you would use a battery maintainer. Just like the ones for boats, motorcycles ..................

Don

 

[Brenden]

I 3rd the others. A UPS will not do well unless you make your own. I would just get a generator.

 

[Meche]

so it would actually be a DIY UPS????

Not really. UPS stands for uninterpretable power supply. If your power went out, your power would be interrupted and you would have to manually switch over to the DIY power supply.

But close enough I guess. I love splitting hairs!

edit: oh wait nevermind, you could wire it to be a UPS if you always ran it off of the batteries

 

[scytale]

FWIW,
I bought a "APC Back-UPS ES 8 Outlet 350VA / 120V" @ CompUsa for $25 specifically for use on my tank--it did not work!

It would not power even my smallest pump/powerhead!!
(Not a MJ1200, not my dinky Aquaclear PH, not even small, submersible "desktop fountain" pumps!).
The battery would immediately go into "uncharged battery mode" (and emit a loud, annoying tone) and/or trip it's internal breaker...

I didn't think it worth the $25 to just run 1 small heater for a few hours.
(The same money invested in decent polystyrene insulation boards kept my tank warmer during this week's blackout....)

I now use the UPS on my desktop computer and it works okay
(enough to finish my emails and then power down correctly....)

During the blackout, I used:

a very small invertor (and my car) to run 1 air pump, and 1 heater--
then when that died (after 48 hours) I used:

jugs of hot water
and a hand-crank egg-beater for aeration for the next 24 hours....

though I would highly recommend a few "Penn Plax Silent Air B11" battery powered Air pumps in place of the egg-beater

(All that hand-cranking keeps you warm when you've got no heat though!)

 

[DonW]

Not really. UPS stands for uninterpretable power supply. If your power went out, your power would be interrupted and you would have to manually switch over to the DIY power supply.

But close enough I guess. I love splitting hairs!

edit: oh wait nevermind, you could wire it to be a UPS if you always ran it off of the batteries

Thow in a relay and you have UPS.

Don

 

[cwby416]

I have a generator, so a diy battery backup doesn't interest me unless it will automaticaly run a heater and ph for a few hours after the power goes out....untill I can get home to start the generator

 

[cwby416]

Thow in a relay and you have UPS.

ok I'm an idiot with electricity, so bare with me
what kind of relay am I looking for?

 

[LakeEd]

(All that hand-cranking keeps you warm when you've got no heat though!)

Gotta like the positive attitude!!!

 

[DonW]

ok I'm an idiot with electricity, so bare with me
what kind of relay am I looking for?

You need a 110v or 12v with transformer DPDT relay. Run what ever it is you are going to run on the NO contacts and take battery power through the NC contacts. When you have power the relay is energized 24/7. As soon as you loose power the relay turns off and the inverter takes over.


Don

 

[Lew90]

While I agree for the most part on all the replies. I've place an APC 1500VA(865w) UPS on my wife's seahorse tank an have been very happy with it. It runs for about 4½ hours to 5 hours using just the heater and hang on filter system.

Keep in mind with an inverter and marine battery you will probably want it to automatically switch over when power is lost and unless I missed something in the replies I don't see how the inverter and marine battery is going to do this for you. That's why I chose to go with a UPS so the switching was done automatically and with the APC 1500VA (sorry I'm at work and don't have the model) it tell you how many event has taken place and what your load is and how long you have of run time. Kind of nice to know when your worrying about power issues.

Another idea similar to the marine batter would be heavy industrial batteries like CAT batteries.

Hope this helps!

 

[DonW]

While I agree for the most part on all the replies. I've place an APC 1500VA(865w) UPS on my wife's seahorse tank an have been very happy with it. It runs for about 4½ hours to 5 hours using just the heater and hang on filter system.

Keep in mind with an inverter and marine battery you will probably want it to automatically switch over when power is lost and unless I missed something in the replies I don't see how the inverter and marine battery is going to do this for you. That's why I chose to go with a UPS so the switching was done automatically and with the APC 1500VA (sorry I'm at work and don't have the model) it tell you how many event has taken place and what your load is and how long you have of run time. Kind of nice to know when your worrying about power issues.

Another idea similar to the marine batter would be heavy industrial batteries like CAT batteries.

Hope this helps!

I think we posted at the same time but a relay will do the switching. The best battery for this is a group 8D deep cycle. At $250ea it would be cheaper to get a generator.

Don

 

[scytale]

While I agree for the most part on all the replies. I've place an APC 1500VA(865w) UPS on my wife's seahorse tank an have been very happy with it. It runs for about 4½ hours to 5 hours using just the heater and hang on filter system.

Hope this helps!

I assumed Bret was looking at the smaller UPS models, when he said:

Does anyone have experience using a UPS for back up power? they all quote 20 min, but would it last longer if I only ran my pump

And in this case--I think you have to get a pretty big UPS (+$75) to make it worth-while for a tank....

(Which, I also did--I'm just waiting for Costco.com to ship my Xantrex400 Backup Power Source.)

It won't do me much good during a long outage--that's when a generator and/or invertor are best....
but I agree it'll keep things running the during the 4 or 5 times a month PSE lets the power drop for some reason or another....

(I moved back to the NW in August and I've never seen such sporadic power-outages before!)
I deliberately keep a digital clock w/ no battery near the tank--just so I can tell if the power went out while I was at work, asleep, etc.
I've lost track of how many times I've had to reset that clock in the past 4 months--once a week at least!)

 

[DonW]

I've lost track of how many times I've had to reset that clock in the past 4 months--once a week at least!)

Thats a good idea. Now you need a alarm to get you out of bed when the power fails.

Don

 

[scytale]

Thats a good idea. Now you need a alarm to get you out of bed when the power fails.

Don

Oh, but I DO have one!
I still use that POS $25 UPS (now for the computer in my home office) and when the power goes--it starts beeping like all h*ll is breaking loose! :badgrin:

After this last storm--I came up with an emergency nickname: "Code Pink" = power outage
(as in, "honey, darling, sweetie, can you go get the pink insulation to wrap around the tank!" ):lol:

 

[aquariumdebacle]

UPS units are measured in VA (Volt-Amps) A heater will use quite a few of these, a small air pump not so much. One may be used to give you some time to switch to a generator but even a few hours for the most robust units is out of the question for anything but a small heater. The small ones used for computers are usually designed for minutes of use not hours. The best ones (~$300) are line conditioners that filter the current as it passes through the unit. If the current is too high (spike) it will cut it down, If the current is too low (sag or worst case: brown-out) it will add current.

The best system yu could have for your home would to be what they call a "Gen-Set" system. What this entales is having your house run on a generator-battery system. The generator is used during peek periods like for cooking, washing, etc, and the batteries are drawn down during low-consumotion periods like at night before bed when you are just listening to music and mabye have just a couple lights on. During the day when you are away the batteries are recharged with solar panel, wind generators, or even a micr-hydro unit if you have a small stream available. Ideally these systems are designed in 24 or 12 volt configurations with an inverter to supply any large torque consumers like washing machines. If you can keep your daily useage under 500 watts then these system make great sense especially for remote locations and mobile vehicles.

I realize that this impractical for our massively consumptive ecosystems but some lessons can be taken from this frugal form of living. First and foremost: don't forget that consumption has a cost acociated with it. Here it is dependence on an abundance of electricity. In the Pacific Norwest this is not normally a problem as we are tearing down dams for salmon in some cases. Last week was an unusally large storm and many trees blew down thus severing our ties to the electricity drug. If you design your system to have a backup that uses minmal electricity (although you could run metal halides off a solar panel without a transformer) you can then feasibly have a failover in place so that when power was cut you would have some time to get the generator running again.

This could cost into the thousands of dollars but with the investment that we put into (including emotional investment) our systems, I think it is well worth the price.

On a side note I also believe that houses designed this way are the wave of the future to sever our extreme dependence on oil. If everybody had a few solar panels on the roof we could dramatically cut our importation of oil and CO2 production. I am not willing to give up my SUV in the near future nor do I think that alternative energy will replace an engine that can easily haul several hundred pounds of saltwater. I do think that every little bit counts and coming up with ways to save energy on our ecosystmes will save more than money. Now where did I put my fur coat?