Krish
RF STAFF
I like how the first response, in the first reply to the original post, says "Nice"
What's that all about? Almost like "let's get it on".
Naw..
You'll have to know me to understand, but I'm not anything like that...Trust me. 
When did the livestock for sale section policy change?
- Thread starter johnpeezy
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Naw..
You'll have to know me to understand, but I'm not anything like that...Trust me. 
johnpeezy
Banned
I like how the first response, in the first reply to the original post, says "Nice
What's that all about? Almost like "let's get it on".
Well in a nutshell he would have to be a complete idiot by not expecting someone making a thread trying to figure out what is going on.
why not air out the dirty laundry in public as opposed to the response PM I got from scooterman after i asked him basiclly the same thing via pm after I made my first post. This way everyone can read it and nobody is in the dark.
PLUS they know whats right and wrong.
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Krish
RF STAFF
Yea, things are still being worked out behind the scene as well as big changes are being made. As you can see Scooty (Scooterman) has been added to the list of owners here and will be taking on a major role here so once that is all sorted out, premium membership can be re-introduced as well as all new sponsors can be addded here. Just takes a bit of time
Okay, where do I start?
lvsuckerfish, I have to assume you aren't a member of many forums. Group Buys, outside of forum Sponsors has been forbidden on many forums, for a very long time.
Johnpeezy, as far as this group buy being effected, while no others have been, give it time.
As to your comment "Can't you leave well enough alone?" Define "well enough." The classified forums have ALWAYS been for members to buy/sell/trade extra equipment that they no longer have a need for, fish that have outgrown their tanks or are no longer fitting in with their current tank, corals that have grown large and need fragged, entire systems of people that are breaking down tanks, due to a move, leaving the hobby, or other reasons, etc.
The classified forums have NEVER been intended to be used to promote any commercial business, RF member or otherwise.
We live in a Free Market Society. Forums are a private business, funded through Sponsors. Our Sponsors pay for the ability to be a sponsor, here on Reef Frontiers, have a forum of their own and a Banner. Their Sponsorship payments are what keeps Reef Frontiers online. As a Sponsor, they are not allowed to advertise, in our Classified Forums.
Our Classified Forums are not intended for Commercial Use. Yet, non-Sponsor vendors are receiving FREE advertising, through these Group Buys, that our paid Sponsors aren't even able to get. I understand that the group buys are being promoted by members and not by the vendors. However, this still ends up being free advertising, for these vendors.
Maybe, instead of members complaining about this new policy, members could encourage other vendors to become sponsors, here on Reef Frontiers.
I would encourage you to approach our vendors, with "group buy pricing," that you're finding through other vendors, and challenge them to put together a comparable group buy. I believe you'll find their responses very positive.
John, yes, the "parameters have changed." They've changed, in order to offer more support for the sponsors, who financially support Reef Frontiers.
lvsuckerfish, I have to assume you aren't a member of many forums. Group Buys, outside of forum Sponsors has been forbidden on many forums, for a very long time.
Johnpeezy, as far as this group buy being effected, while no others have been, give it time.
As to your comment "Can't you leave well enough alone?" Define "well enough." The classified forums have ALWAYS been for members to buy/sell/trade extra equipment that they no longer have a need for, fish that have outgrown their tanks or are no longer fitting in with their current tank, corals that have grown large and need fragged, entire systems of people that are breaking down tanks, due to a move, leaving the hobby, or other reasons, etc.
The classified forums have NEVER been intended to be used to promote any commercial business, RF member or otherwise.
We live in a Free Market Society. Forums are a private business, funded through Sponsors. Our Sponsors pay for the ability to be a sponsor, here on Reef Frontiers, have a forum of their own and a Banner. Their Sponsorship payments are what keeps Reef Frontiers online. As a Sponsor, they are not allowed to advertise, in our Classified Forums.
Our Classified Forums are not intended for Commercial Use. Yet, non-Sponsor vendors are receiving FREE advertising, through these Group Buys, that our paid Sponsors aren't even able to get. I understand that the group buys are being promoted by members and not by the vendors. However, this still ends up being free advertising, for these vendors.
Maybe, instead of members complaining about this new policy, members could encourage other vendors to become sponsors, here on Reef Frontiers.
I would encourage you to approach our vendors, with "group buy pricing," that you're finding through other vendors, and challenge them to put together a comparable group buy. I believe you'll find their responses very positive.
John, yes, the "parameters have changed." They've changed, in order to offer more support for the sponsors, who financially support Reef Frontiers.
Please refer to the newest Sticky that's been added to both Classified forums.
lvsuckerfish
g funk
no I am not a member on every forum out there but I am a member of a bunch or forum's and I never seen a issue with group buys for any of them. non sponsor related. I do not participate in RC as I do not agree with their logic and moderating. so for me it was a simple give up. by not going to that site. as one they are not local and to I could careless about them RC that is. as group buys would be along the lines of a more local forum setting rather then a national setting as with this forum prodominalty washington folks. so I would be curious as to what other forums do not allow it? since you assume I am not a member on many?
Yet, non-Sponsor vendors are receiving FREE advertising, through these Group Buys, that our paid Sponsors aren't even able to get
Even though they arent getting free advertising dont you think that they are
getting quite a bit out of being sposors?
how many people would show up to the barrier sale if they werent sponsors
on here . Nothing personal to barrier its just the best thing i could think of
off the top of my head . just a point for everyone to think about which
hopefully came across as clear on this post as it did in my head LOL
Even though they arent getting free advertising dont you think that they are
getting quite a bit out of being sposors?
how many people would show up to the barrier sale if they werent sponsors
on here . Nothing personal to barrier its just the best thing i could think of
off the top of my head . just a point for everyone to think about which
hopefully came across as clear on this post as it did in my head LOL
johnpeezy
Banned
Okay, okay, you said earlier in this thread groupbuys even by buisness not sponsoring RF are fine, but we just can't say there name is open forum?
so we would have to do something like this for example:
title: Groupbuy for corals Federal Way
subject: I'm going to be setting up a groupbuy for corals if your interested in participating send me a PM.
is that reasonable?
as opposed to
title: <insert non-sponsor buisness name here> groupbuy Federal Way...etc..
So apparently optin number 2 is now considered free advertisement?
This may be hard for you to believe, but alot of the members that post on these boards also post on other boards as well. I really don't to be quite honest and what you just said is what I'm worried about happening.
maybe I and a large ammount of others will wind up going somewhere else
and btw if I don't like the rules of the site I WILL leave.
can someone address this quote please, I think it might have been lost in the vortex of posts
John, I apologize that your post was missed and hasn't been addressed yet. Here you go.
At this time, group buys will be allowed, for Sponsor vendors only, AND only in those Sponsors own forums.
Your seeking clarification is not being taken as complaining at all, I assure you. This has been a change that was prompted by several factors. The fact that this change took place, so quickly, is apt to leave some confused. So, seeking clarification is to be expected.
As for "going somewhere else," we have all been blessed with "free will."
If you don't like the rules of the site, and feel the need to leave, that is your right. However, I hope you can at least understand the spirit in which the policy change has taken place.
I think you'll quickly discover that almost all national or international forums, in just about any topic, not just reefkeeping, limits group buys to sponsors of the forums.
At this time, group buys will be allowed, for Sponsor vendors only, AND only in those Sponsors own forums.
Your seeking clarification is not being taken as complaining at all, I assure you. This has been a change that was prompted by several factors. The fact that this change took place, so quickly, is apt to leave some confused. So, seeking clarification is to be expected.
As for "going somewhere else," we have all been blessed with "free will."
If you don't like the rules of the site, and feel the need to leave, that is your right. However, I hope you can at least understand the spirit in which the policy change has taken place.
I think you'll quickly discover that almost all national or international forums, in just about any topic, not just reefkeeping, limits group buys to sponsors of the forums.
lvsuckerfish
g funk
honestly I would say most as most of us shop there anyways so 90% would be there and also they send out news letters.
lol but thats me I do not disagree I was caught off guard with the sudden change, Is all! This will not affect me one way or the other i support who I want when I want and most stores from Red sea down have seen me in them atleast one time or another. rather I want something or not i buy something to supprt rather then being a window shopper for the day, as tosupport the local stores the cost may be higher but when you need something last min. they will be there rather then waiting a week to ship something or pay over night shipping. I support local stores and most half the time online also. With most sponsors the links are to see how many hits they get from the site to see if the cost is helping them with advertising on the site or not. I do know BRS. is like that and also a few others that may or may not be sponsors here. I honestly have proably all the links from places I order live stock from save in my favorites.
lvsuckerfish, the majority of national or international forums, regardless of topic, limit group buys only to sponsor vendors.
The smaller, localized, forums typically have very few Sponsors, who usually don't even pay sponsorship fees. For instance, our local club forum offers free sponsorship, as does PSAS forum, I believe, at least they did at one time.
Again, after discussing this issue, with many of our Sponsors, I encourage all of you to approach any of our sponsors, with the idea of a group buy, INCLUDING letting them know the prices you could get from non sponsor forums. I believe you'll be surprised to find that a lot of our sponsors are more than willing to meet these prices and fill the needs of a group buy!
I also encourage you to help us in our effort to bring more Sponsors to Reef Frontiers.
I also encourage you to help us in our effort to bring more Sponsors to Reef Frontiers.
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lvsuckerfish
g funk
ok again who is doing a group buy with someone in england from washington or for the matter florida? RF'ers is a more local forum as most local forums do allow this RC people from all over the place not so much of a local forum. and honestly I do not really pay attention to the forsale ads on other forums as I would have to fork out shipping. Psas another local and I believe they do not fray apon GB's and I would think always got something from a sponser what it would be the vendor sending in a skimmer or gift cards as raffles is where the money would come into play with paying for the service.... (I am a Mod on another site so I do know how things work behind the scenes) and I would guess 80% of the members here are from washington! which would be the reason for GB's on this site.
I am not argueing if right or wrong to stay or leave I am asking for changes to be handled better. this is Lvsuckerfish and I approved this message lol
I personally think the situation could of been handled better, rather then closing one down and leaving others up and running. sorry for the other's don't mean to toss you all under the bus but as said earlier an apple is still an apple!
I am not argueing if right or wrong to stay or leave I am asking for changes to be handled better. this is Lvsuckerfish and I approved this message lol
I personally think the situation could of been handled better, rather then closing one down and leaving others up and running. sorry for the other's don't mean to toss you all under the bus but as said earlier an apple is still an apple!
E
eww
Guest
As my post seems to be the initiation to this policy I do just want to clarify one thing after seeing all this come about...
I think I mis-stated by calling it a "Group Buy". I did not need anyone to buy anything. I already have free shipping, whether anymore product is purchased or not so I was only offering up the opportunity for other RF member to buy something and add it to my order to take advantage of the free shipping. I'm not sure if that would technically be called a Group Buy or not???
Either way I can understand the rules and had I known they were there I would not have posted the "Group Buy" thread. I have only been a member here for 6 months or so. I do agree with a lot of things people from both sides of this discussion are saying. However, we do benefit from a fantastic community of amazing, knowledgeable, friendly people here at little to no charge to ourselves (we ill become premium members when it's available again). My own personal feeling is that if there are some rules we need to follow, so be it. As long as every effort is made to be fair to as many people involved as possible. I am confident that this group of mods/owners will come up with ways to make this community work better and thrive.
Eric
I think I mis-stated by calling it a "Group Buy". I did not need anyone to buy anything. I already have free shipping, whether anymore product is purchased or not so I was only offering up the opportunity for other RF member to buy something and add it to my order to take advantage of the free shipping. I'm not sure if that would technically be called a Group Buy or not???
Either way I can understand the rules and had I known they were there I would not have posted the "Group Buy" thread. I have only been a member here for 6 months or so. I do agree with a lot of things people from both sides of this discussion are saying. However, we do benefit from a fantastic community of amazing, knowledgeable, friendly people here at little to no charge to ourselves (we ill become premium members when it's available again). My own personal feeling is that if there are some rules we need to follow, so be it. As long as every effort is made to be fair to as many people involved as possible. I am confident that this group of mods/owners will come up with ways to make this community work better and thrive.
Eric
Krish
RF STAFF
This may be hard for you to believe, but alot of the members that post on these boards also post on other boards as well. I really don't to be quite honest and what you just said is what I'm worried about happening.
maybe I and a large ammount of others will wind up going somewhere else
and btw if I don't like the rules of the site I WILL leave.
I understand that you are just seeking clarification which is what I have been trying to provide so no worries at all.
I may have seemed a bit irritated at first, but I was just trying to juggle answering all these questions on my own (till Sid chimed in) and deal with a 9 month old waking up every few mins (not to mention it is 2 am where I am) and I am still sitting here trying to help you guys understand what is going on in the best way possble. I would hate to see anyone leave the forum especially just because of a few simple rules they didn't like. I don't think you will find another forum out there with a better atmosphere than RF (and they all have rules which some of which you won't like). I mean look at my post count and I have been missing for 2 years! :shock: I am a member of about 10 other forums, but none comes even close to RF to me. These new rules have to be put in place to protect the sponsors who are keeping the forum online. If the sponsors get fed up and leave then un-fortunately RF is history. :doubt: You guys have to try and work with us and understand where we are coming from. When I took the position as a supermod, it was under the understanding that I was not here to police the site. My main goal has always been to help out a fellow reefer as best I can first and then watch over things secondly. I've never looked at anyone as smaller than me and just want the best for everyone here. Hopefully we can get things resolved to a point where everyone benefits. If you guys have suggestions then throw them out. We will listen to each and every one of them and take then into consideration
johnpeezy
Banned
The Psas does not offer free sponsorship.
I have been activly SEEKING sponsors for the PSAS this year and its not free.
Speaking of clubs, what id we were to run a CLUB sanctioned groupbuy in our section of the forum?
we have sponsors, not offiliated with reeffrontiers can we say there names and such on our section of this forum?
Eww, your thread didn't start this, regardless of what some are saying. Maybe others haven't noticed, but a few other group buys have been removed, recently, from the classified forums.
Eww, to you specifically, since your thread was effected, as well as to all other members, we apologize for the sudden way in which this happened. Because of several different factors, a policy change has been discussed for quite some time and certain factors brought on the immediate change.
Eww, to you specifically, since your thread was effected, as well as to all other members, we apologize for the sudden way in which this happened. Because of several different factors, a policy change has been discussed for quite some time and certain factors brought on the immediate change.
lvsuckerfish
g funk
what other sponsers do you want I know alot of them lol as they get money from me all the dang time.
sorry forgot to quote sidS post
sorry forgot to quote sidS post
johnpeezy
Banned
EWW's thread caused me to make a post. Strictly because it was the first groupbuy that I noticed being closed. Regardless of who,what, when, where, why any groupbuy thread was closed I would have still asked the same questions.
Krish
RF STAFF
Agree..This wasnt' the first by a long shot. Just probably the first noticed because it wasn't removed. Sid can confirm this, but I was told to remove the thread totally off of the open forum and put into quarentine to discuss it (which means no-one would have really noticed but the parties involved), but I said I would leave it up and just close it. Why, because I knew a few parties were still involved in this group buy and didn't want to yank it from under their nose and screw up the arrangements they already had...
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