When did the livestock for sale section policy change?
- Thread starter johnpeezy
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John, please forgive my mistake. At one point, PSAS did offer free Sponsorship, on the PSAS Forum.
As of right now, club sanctioned group buys will not be allowed, though this may change, as we're still discussing this new policy and it may evolve, with time. Allowing group buys to take place, within the club forums, has been discussed and we appreciate your added suggestion to this.
If and when the current policy, as posted in the new stickies, in the classified forums, changes, we will make sure to notify everyone, through a global announcement, as well as on this Feedback and Suggestions forum, as well as an edit to the new sticky and new title to that sticky, so it's more likely to be noticed.
I understand that PSAS has sponsors that are not involved with Reef Frontiers, ON the PSAS Forum. How PSAS decides to "protect" or "support" those sponsors, on PSAS' Forum isn't related to how we, here on Reef Frontiers, decide to protect and support our Sponsors.
Perhaps there could be another forum where members are able to add their names to a list if they are interested in doing group buys. Than whoever wants to do a group buy on their own, can pm said member(s) with notification of the group buy they are constructing. :shock:
Krish
RF STAFF
Krish
RF STAFF
Are there any other concerns or questions out there that we accidentally missed in replying to or anything that was not answered to your satisfaction? Alot of the answers I probably won't have, but will have to come from an admin. who hopefully will chime in sometime tomorrow for better clarification.
dogfrog
latezonatus
So from what I have read in the last 10 min or so in this posting that this site is no longer for the hobbits but is here to be controlled by the venders. If a vender does not like what we want to talk about (anything) the vender has the right to have the mods shut it down?.
As I see it, that shows me that the venders want a close market and are afraid of any outside competition. With that kind of elitist attitude it make me think twice if I want to do business with any of them.
I would be hard pressed to say that this site cost anymore then $100 ( on the very high side) a month to keep running as I supply the PSAS their site for FREE. Yes FREE. And my out of pocket cost for that is less then $5.00 per month…. Hum
Mark
As I see it, that shows me that the venders want a close market and are afraid of any outside competition. With that kind of elitist attitude it make me think twice if I want to do business with any of them.
I would be hard pressed to say that this site cost anymore then $100 ( on the very high side) a month to keep running as I supply the PSAS their site for FREE. Yes FREE. And my out of pocket cost for that is less then $5.00 per month…. Hum
Mark
Are you comparing "sponsors" to "lobbyists"(government) me like...haha
Since you keep pushing this issue, and it hasn't really been addressed, fully, I thought I'd throw something out there, for you to chew on.
While Reef Frontiers has members from all over the nation, and even all over the world, yes the majority of members are more localized. A large group of sponsors are also more localized. Because of this, the more localized sponsors are hit, financially, when we send our money to vendors in Florida, instead of spending our money locally.
Once again, I encourage you all to speak with our sponsors about group buys. I've talked with quite a few of them, recently. They would love our group buy business and will work hard to get that business.
Also, in the future, please keep your eye out for new sponsors, being added to Reef Frontiers. Maybe even some that have been the beneficiaries of some recent group buys.
dieden
Exocoetidae
Oh and for a second there I thought we were past the "controlling and censuring" arguments. Where is War when you need them??? "why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends...."
Mark, PSAS has 652 members, 293 images and 11831 total posts. PSAS is ran on FREE Forum Software.
On the other hand, Reef Frontiers has 23,333 members, and a data base of 54,574 threads. I couldn't begin to count the number of images on the data base. Heck, I probably have a couple thousand images of my own, on this data base. Reef Frontiers is also ran on forum software that's far from free AND needs to be upgraded, which will be an additional expense.
Please don't take this as I'm trying to compare the 2 forums, as a competition, because I'm not. I'm a member of both forums and am proud to be. In fact, I was among the first few members of PSAS Forum.
I wouldn't even try to guess at how much it costs to keep Reef Frontiers running, mainly because it's none of my business.
As to your other comments....
Vendors (Sponsors) do not run this site. Nor do they dictate how Reef Frontiers is ran. However, we as members need to appreciate the sponsors that we do have. Without sponsors, there would be no Reef Frontiers. That's been said so many times, in this thread, that I'd have thought it would have sunk in by now. I guess not.
If we, as members, don't support our Sponsors, financially, why should they continue to sponsor Reef Frontiers? Take it to a more local level. If we don't support our local aquatic stores, how do they feed their families, pay their employees, keep their power on? In other words, sponsors help Reef Frontiers keep our "doors open." Shouldn't we, as members, support our sponsors and help them keep their doors open?
No one is dictating where you spend your money. However, Reef Frontiers was never intended to be a "market." Reef Frontier's primary goal is to be a Discussion Forum, where like minded hobbyists can exchange ideas, wisdom advice and knowledge. Along the way, most of us make a lot of great friends and learn a lot. I sure have. Reef Frontiers wasn't set up as a "buy/sell/trade" forum. Those things are a fringe benefit, that we members enjoy. Part of what keeps that fringe benefit available, to all members, is the financial support that Reef Frontiers gets, from Sponsors.
dogfrog
latezonatus
I am all for supporting the LFS but to a point. There are 2 that are sponsors on this site that I have contacted to purchase a few of the non stock fish. And to give you an idea it was back in JULY. And to this date neither has contacted me with whether they can get them. One is just a Gold rim tang (Acanthurus nigricans)
But I can find them on many of the internet based fish stores and they do have them in stock.
And I bet one of the LFS is one that is complaining the loudest to you.
So why would I want to do a group buy with them?
And I have a server sitting right now that I could have up on line that would more then handle anything this site could throw at it. and my yearly cost would be less then 100.00 per month all depends on how you set everything up.
But I can find them on many of the internet based fish stores and they do have them in stock.
And I bet one of the LFS is one that is complaining the loudest to you.
So why would I want to do a group buy with them?
And I have a server sitting right now that I could have up on line that would more then handle anything this site could throw at it. and my yearly cost would be less then 100.00 per month all depends on how you set everything up.
Krish
RF STAFF
Posting on this site is for the hobbyist first and foremost to share information about the hobby and not the consumer trying to make a buck selling something. That's why I signed up initially...To learn about keeping saltwater aquariums. I really wish I knew why people are so caught up in the notion that this site was designed to sell stuff. It was designed to share info about the hobby and nothing more. It is just a bonus that the owners were nice enough to toss in a for sale forum here along with another non related item the water fountain for us... Very sad that RF has come to this. We never had this issue before.
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Scooterman
Well-known member
You guys ever sleep? 
I think from my reading is a lot of misconceptions here, later today I will throughly read all of these post and clarify some. I can't stay up all night and defend the site then go to work the next day at 5 am. Seeing the mods were up over almost 3AM my time, show me their passion and dedication. This also shows me the the members has some of the same passions and concerns. For now I'll read it throughly later today after work and do my best to clarify. I certainly see lots of misconceptions, this site isn't the only ones to have rules like this.
Thanks all for not letting it whirl wind!
I think from my reading is a lot of misconceptions here, later today I will throughly read all of these post and clarify some. I can't stay up all night and defend the site then go to work the next day at 5 am. Seeing the mods were up over almost 3AM my time, show me their passion and dedication. This also shows me the the members has some of the same passions and concerns. For now I'll read it throughly later today after work and do my best to clarify. I certainly see lots of misconceptions, this site isn't the only ones to have rules like this.
Thanks all for not letting it whirl wind!
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Scooterman
Well-known member
Another misconception, this was NEVER a PSAS site!
I accidentally closed the thread, sorry!
Ichthys
Well-known member
well yeah... after reading all this, i need a hug... but to be very specific.. not a GROUP hug... that may cause more issues...
Ichy
Krish
RF STAFF
LOL! :lol:
While I'm here, I just wanted to say that I hope I didn't rub anyone the wrong way on this thread. If I did, I apologize as it was never my intentions.
I was not trying to make life dificult for anyone here just doing what I was asked to do which was to make sure that that rules of the forum are followed. I am first and foremost a regular member here who just loves to help out anyone I can within the hobby. Even if it just to say "nice job" I do it to encourage others. I've always been like that. Nothing upsets me more than to see things go sour here.:doubt: I totally understand where you the members are coming from too with the changes that are taking place and ask that you try to atleast see where we are coming from as well. Just because we are staff doesn't mean we don't have to follow these rules as everything that is put into effect, we have to abide by ourselves. Maybe I'm not as sensitive or as affected by what goes on in the for sale forums as the other person is, but that is only because I never go there to buy or sell anything. Infact, I've never even started a thread there and just started visiting that section recently when made a mod and posts were being reported (most of which were by regular members themseves). I signed up here to learn about the hobby and that's basically it. I however don't see anything wrong with it's members selling what they have, trading or anything of that nature there. The for sale forums were put there specifically just for that, but I think what has happened along the way is it's original intentions were abused and as a result changes that had to be put in place which from what I understand, Scooty will explain later.In any event, hopefully we can all come to some sort of understanding/solution that is fitting for all. I'd personally hate to see any member leave because they didn't like it here anymore. I still think RF has the best atmosphere compared to any other forum out there and it would be good for us to keep it that way.
Once again sorry if I upset anyone
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Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
"I still think RF has the best atmosphere compared to any other forum out there and it would be good for us to keep it that way."
Krish, I can not even imagine anyone getting offended by anything a kind soul such as yourself ever writes here. Your final statement says more than anything and I suspect that this same passion is what drives many to post notes of dissent. I am glad that these voices are being allowed, as the lack of censorship is the primary reason RF is the only Marine aquariest site that I frequent.
This site was originally a place for fellow reef keepers to communicate and share their love of the hobby. It has vastly outgrown it's simple roots but putting restrictions on what communications are allowed and which "not allowed" is always a dangerous path to embark on. Perhaps for each avenue of communication that gets closed, another door could be opened. One that didn't offend our sponsors whom are so important to RF's survival.
Krish, I can not even imagine anyone getting offended by anything a kind soul such as yourself ever writes here. Your final statement says more than anything and I suspect that this same passion is what drives many to post notes of dissent. I am glad that these voices are being allowed, as the lack of censorship is the primary reason RF is the only Marine aquariest site that I frequent.
This site was originally a place for fellow reef keepers to communicate and share their love of the hobby. It has vastly outgrown it's simple roots but putting restrictions on what communications are allowed and which "not allowed" is always a dangerous path to embark on. Perhaps for each avenue of communication that gets closed, another door could be opened. One that didn't offend our sponsors whom are so important to RF's survival.
Krish
RF STAFF
Thanks Mike! Being absent for about two years, newer members who joined during that time don't know me so well so I just wanted to make sure that they knew I'm not here acting on some "power trip" or to bust anyone's chops just for the hell of it
Freya
Well-known member
With any changing of the guard people should expect things to change. I think that it is important to all of us that this transition to go as smooth as possible. One of the main things that I would like with rules changing is notification of these changes before they are enforced. I want to know before I make a post whether or not I am going to be violating the user agreement. I know that I don't routinely read the user agreement and I don't think that it is too much to ask for notification of changes before threads are affected. Please let me know if you think that I am being unreasonable.
Krish
RF STAFF
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