Jobiwan
Well-known member
You are absolutely right Kurt, well said....
wholesale to the public?
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roscoe
Well-known member
Yeah I agree customer service has gone to the grave. It is so impersonal now. I mean everytime I call a company for service what do I get a freaking automated system or some stupid computer processed personality jerking me around. Its like pulling your nails out of your finger just to talk to an actual human being.
krisfal
Well-known member
Personally, although I do use the internet for some items (usually when I cannot find it locally) I am too much into instant gratification to wait for something I bought to arrive. When I decide I want/need something it is pretty much a I want it now situation.
Mark has a good point, customer service can help a brick and mortar compete against an on-line store, especially in this hobby. Barrier Reef is a good example of this. It takes me nearly 90 minutes to drive there one way, but I make the drive because if I have a question I will get a knowledgable answer. Unfortunately not many LFS have that level of Customer Service. I even drive to BR for a bucket of salt, because I know it will not only be just a bucket of salt, and I may need some questions answered regarding the impulse purchases
Mark has a good point, customer service can help a brick and mortar compete against an on-line store, especially in this hobby. Barrier Reef is a good example of this. It takes me nearly 90 minutes to drive there one way, but I make the drive because if I have a question I will get a knowledgable answer. Unfortunately not many LFS have that level of Customer Service. I even drive to BR for a bucket of salt, because I know it will not only be just a bucket of salt, and I may need some questions answered regarding the impulse purchases
DonW
R.I.P.
Not sales tax, Wa just gives it a nicer name and calls it use tax @6.5%. Then they go after online store to get the information needed to enforce the use tax. If the businesses cannot supply the information we make them liable. WA, CA FL and NY are going after anyone they can including the little guys like myself and even the big guys like Drug Store .com
Don
But if the store has to sell it at what they pay for it. Why waste the space in the store to make nothing off it. Most things online are the same price if not cheaper than what the LFS can buy at wholesale.
If a lfs could afford to do this i think they would. But the only way to get distributor pricing is to order 10 k worth of stuff a year. How can you move that kind of product. And that is only one brand.
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DonW
R.I.P.
If I buy a pump for $40 and sell it to you for $43 or $45 the savings on the internet isnt going to make it worth the wait when you could have instant gratification. While your at the store buying the low profit pump chances are pretty darn good your gouing to buy the high profit sps coral or your kid will fall in love with the over priced nemo. You have to get people into the store by having things the need and then they buy the things they want not need.
Don
Craiz
Well-known member
I think there is an interesting aspect to this that I haven't seen mentioned yet. For me, the information available on the internet and specifically sites like this one have decreased my need and dependence on an LFS with knowlegdable staff. I can easily get the information I need elsewhere.
I think this aspect applies nearly universally (it does for me anyway). The more informed consumers are, the less valuable customer service becomes and then purchase decisions are really about price, convenience and impulse.
Something that has been mentioned in this thread that is a factor for me is product selection. There are several online vendors with extensive product inventory and good prices. I've found that the LFS often don't carry all the products I want to buy and if I'm going to place an online order for some things, I just get them all from the same place.
I think this aspect applies nearly universally (it does for me anyway). The more informed consumers are, the less valuable customer service becomes and then purchase decisions are really about price, convenience and impulse.
Something that has been mentioned in this thread that is a factor for me is product selection. There are several online vendors with extensive product inventory and good prices. I've found that the LFS often don't carry all the products I want to buy and if I'm going to place an online order for some things, I just get them all from the same place.
The pricing situation doesnt stop at the dry goods. Is a point im trying to get across. Its also live stock as well. If a unbelievable price is at one shop it Probably is a wholesale price. Therefore the other shops dont have a chance to compete anymore. online pricing, transhippers, wholesale internet companies, lfs that entertain these pricing to lure you into the door. seems to put a black eye on the hobby or industry as a whole.
Retail space is not cheap. and if you stock everything at a interent price to try to sell some livestock. Puts a larger markup on your live stock making it almost immpossible to sell enough to pay your overhead. If a shop has a $2 a sq ft lease. And a 1000 sq ft shop plus a $600 triple net. The shop is looking at $2600 a month just in the lease. That is hard to make up. When you are forced to sell at wholesale pricing.
Retail space is not cheap. and if you stock everything at a interent price to try to sell some livestock. Puts a larger markup on your live stock making it almost immpossible to sell enough to pay your overhead. If a shop has a $2 a sq ft lease. And a 1000 sq ft shop plus a $600 triple net. The shop is looking at $2600 a month just in the lease. That is hard to make up. When you are forced to sell at wholesale pricing.
roscoe
Well-known member
This is a competitive world don't hate the player hate the game. I think I know why this thread was started now.
DonW
R.I.P.
I'm one of those people that would never buy a fish or coral on the internet. I hate paying the cost of overnight freight and not seeing the livestock before I buy it. After adding $25 in shipping to a single fish I save money by paying more for the fish at the LFS. But as with my heater shopping experience I ended up getting what was a good deal until I paid $9 in shipping.
You also have to keep in mind it takes money to make money. Businesses started on a shoe string budget dont fair well to competition. Lack of capitol is one obvious reason some of the LFS are not doing well. Its next to impossible to recover from failure due to lack of working capitol.
Don
Blazer88
Well-known member
No one is forcing them to sell at "wholesale" pricing. In my opinion, a good chunk of this hobby has been commoditized and people are going to search for the lowest price. If they can't compete at the lowest price they should have a solid plan to add value and to justify the price increase. I'm not willing to pay more for a fish just because their lease is higher, that's not my fault. But if the shop has more knowledgeable employee's (should I need the advice), healthier livestock, and better service, they will get my business over another place and I'm willing to pay a small premium for that.
burning2nd
Well-known member
hmmmmm Im a little lost but..
are we talking about cuting out the middle mad? (lfs) or the noobs at the lfs?
Im lucky i have a good lfs.
are we talking about cuting out the middle mad? (lfs) or the noobs at the lfs?
Im lucky i have a good lfs.
I agree with you rick, Paying a premuim for services rendered is worth my money any day. Its not the price but the future of the hobby. Was my intent on starting this thread. All opinions are welcomed.
If we continue down a trail that ultimately makes it impossible for the neighborhood LFS to stay in business. Where does that leave the hobby or the future hobbyist. I remember when I walked into a LFS and said wow thats cool. Thought to myself hmmm I wonder how much a tank cost. And here I am today addicted. So what would have happend if I could not see the fish in the first place, or had no where to buy a tank, or equipment. would I have been able to start into this hobby. I dont think so.,
It is all supply vs demand. I think each LFS needs to decide what segment of customers they are interested in serving and how to make up the loss area with profitable area. Online shop is always going to be around so certain products are alwyas going to have a hard time for LFS to compete.. But buying stuff online cannot answer your question, cannot do water test for you, cannot design a system for u etc... so in a way LFS do have their advantages as well.
May be if the retail of livestock/dry goods is no good, need to come up with other ideas like serving on site customers, lease top end skimmers (I have a friend of mine who was really into skiing and I think he spent a few hundred on renting diff high end ski from ski shop before he decided which one to purchase), build custom tank, only sell high end fish, provide some service package for new starters, etc.
There is this fresh water fish shop in seattle china town which sells fish at probably 1/3 to 1/2 of what most LFS charges....One time I was able to pick up like 10 neon tetra for like $5. It smells, messy, and it was in an alley. This shop can probably fit like 3 customers inside at most each time.... yet everytime when I passed by I saw people going into that store... So the poeple go over are for the price of fish and don't care about service..
May be if the retail of livestock/dry goods is no good, need to come up with other ideas like serving on site customers, lease top end skimmers (I have a friend of mine who was really into skiing and I think he spent a few hundred on renting diff high end ski from ski shop before he decided which one to purchase), build custom tank, only sell high end fish, provide some service package for new starters, etc.
There is this fresh water fish shop in seattle china town which sells fish at probably 1/3 to 1/2 of what most LFS charges....One time I was able to pick up like 10 neon tetra for like $5. It smells, messy, and it was in an alley. This shop can probably fit like 3 customers inside at most each time.... yet everytime when I passed by I saw people going into that store... So the poeple go over are for the price of fish and don't care about service..
Scooterman
Well-known member
Our long term successful LFS keeps some equipment in stock at about three times the charge but you'll see that stuff sit there a long time. They stock Live goods & maintain tanks throughout local businesses & homes, that is their main stay for income, they really don't need to even have the store but that is used to bring in the business. I like buying livestock locally, the prices is usually as good or better than on-line, just the opposite of dry goods. IMO I'd do like Don says & just mark up slightly & sell dry goods to get the other business in the door, It is simple to figure out this concept, they don't need to make a huge profit on that stuff but they all jack up the prices so high it just doesn't sell.
Whatever happens, lets keep the topic on track, think about what other read into your posted words, it is a good subject so lets keep it that way.
Whatever happens, lets keep the topic on track, think about what other read into your posted words, it is a good subject so lets keep it that way.
Curtswearing
Mantisfreak
I actually beat Internet prices on most of my supplements and smaller dry goods. But that's because I have a 4000 square foot warehouse and I don't buy from the regular supplier....I go directly to the manufacturer. I don't buy 3 of an item, I buy 3 cases for discounted pricing. On some items, I buy a pallet and get a pallet price discount. Since my competitors all have to use the same supplier for all dry goods and I also own that catalog, I know what they pay for their goods.....that's convenient information to have. I also keep very few tanks around collecting dust and using up valuable cash flow. When they want a tank, I open up my catalog, show it right to the customer and say, your cost is $25 more than list. Sure I don't make any money on the tank but they still have to buy sand, live rock, filtration, lighting, heaters, etc.
LFS's just need to evolve and admit that they cannot run their business the same way they used to.
LFS's just need to evolve and admit that they cannot run their business the same way they used to.
Scooterman
Well-known member
Curt, we need more guys like you in the LFS business
Skimmy
SKIM FU
yeah curt, can i work at your store??? lol
Curtswearing
Mantisfreak
Trust me....it's not all fun and games. There have been times when I've gone home and the Sun is already coming up, and I have to be back at the store in 2 hours so I can't go to sleep.
greenmonkey51
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2007
- Messages
- 116
I've given up on LFS in my town. They make stuff harder than it is. Like trying to get a food they normally don't stock, but can easily order. They want to do stuff like back in the early 90's. They can get nice fish, but it takes to much effort to get what I want. Going online is easier. One LFS hasn't ordered fish for 3-4 weeks even though the tanks are empty and they usually sell every fish that comes in within a week. They haven't ordered rock for 6 weeks.
