Yellow Tang fin Issue

[Lunchbucket]

i've heard you are the man to ask so here it goes

well i'm not sure if this a problem but my YT has a little bit of a fin issue. it came about since i put them to bed last night (10pm). it's now 4pm. my wife was home sick and she said his fins looked rough earlier. the only reason i am getting freaked out is because i had a YT that got what i think was a bad bacterial infection that looked sort of similar.

here is what his fin looks like. sorry for the out of focus image but it is hard to get a pic of him! it isn't bad but looks sort of similar to what i had happen months ago w/ a different tang

i notice no signs of aggresion from other fish but could be the female clown i guess. this came about over night. i have checked all my water parameters too

am - undetectable
nitrate - undetectable
alk 9.0dKH
ca - 440ppm
po4 - undetectable on salifert (last time i checked 3wks ago w/ a colorimeter it was .04ppm)
pH - 7.9-8.13 swing. lower because the apt is shut up it's cold out

this is what the OTHER TANG looked like the 1-2days before his whole body was covered w/ an ulcer then he died

isoaked some nori in some Kent Marine Zoe and some garlic extract. trying to feed him and boost the immune system. he has been in the system since 10/14/06 and has shown no signs of illness

also his gill fins (can't remember the name) look a little cloudy/fraid. and have a big whitish lump on them

any help? i can't get him out. anything i add to his food? i can't treat the tank and can't get him out.

thanks
Lunchbucket

 

[ronj]

isoaked some nori in some Kent Marine Zoe and some garlic extract. trying to feed him and boost the immune system

.
Good!! you will need to continue doing this...you also might want to get some Zoecon as well...if you cannot remove the tang, i would go ahead and start preparing water for several water changes ASAP!!!! how large of a tank is it in????
i wish i hadn't seen that second pic..that is awful !!!

 

[Lunchbucket]

ronj - i'm gonna keep doing this.

water changes?? why is that?

it's in a 58gal...don't hurt me!

yeah that 2nd pic is terrible!! sorry

Lunchbucket

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Lunch, you have a fish that is dying and with treatment could live. The water changes do not have to be costly and are vital for treatment of this poor fish. It needs very clean water at the least. Get a quote for a bucket of salt at pet-smart.com or Petco.com print it out and have the store manager at a the local store please match it in house. Steven S is the pro here for fish diseases and will give you other things to try too.
Good Luck,
Mike

 

[ronj]

water changes?? why is that?

it's in a 58gal...don't hurt me!

the water needs to be very clean..i'm going through something similar, but my tang is in a 125g..i am doing 25g water changes every 3-4 days!!!!!

Mike, can you really get a cheap price online and have the store match it??? i may look into that..i have been gettin IO bags for $12 at my lfs...Petco sells the same bag for $25 here!!!

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Ron, most of my friends get their 160 gallon buckets this way for $35 each or less.

 

[ronj]

i am going to check that out right now!!!!!
Petco is more expensive !!! their sale on a 50g bag is double what i pay normally..here is what i found
http://www.petco.com/Shop/petco_Pro...N_24+116+30+5549_sku_77780_familyID_5694.aspx

 

[Herefishyfishy]

http://www.petsmart.com/global/prod...&In=Fish&previousText=instant+ocean&N=2023693

Petsmart.com $31.99 for 160 gal bucket

 

[Maxx]

Hey Eric, its good to see you over here.
Guys,
The fish in the first pic is not the same fish as the one in the 2nd pic. The 2nd one is his first tang and didnt make it. The first pic is his current tang, (several months in between the two) and is showing some fin damage that reminds him of the previous incident.

Steve will have some good info for you.

Nick

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Max, agreed, but what caused the prior loss is still present in the tank and we know the end result last time. A good water change and close inspection to see if the clowns are starting the damage, would be a good start.

 

[ronj]

yes i would do a good sized water change and i would keep them coming over the next few weeks!!!

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Definately painful looking at the second pic, But agreed, water change and boost his immune system, I would prefer a Q tank so treatment can occur , cuz I have a feeling your gonna need some type of Addative to kill whatever that is.

 

[ronj]

yeah, if it is mild enough, the water changes could treat it, but if it gets worse, it will need to be put in a qt to be treated with meds

 

[Maxx]

Max, agreed, but what caused the prior loss is still present in the tank and we know the end result last time. A good water change and close inspection to see if the clowns are starting the damage, would be a good start.

How do you know what caused the prior loss is still in the tank? Are you suspecting a disease or another fish. If you're talking about another fish, then why are none of the other fish in the tank being attacked? If you're talking about a disease, what disease attacks tangs only? What disease can be treated by massive water changes? Why are massive and frequent water changes being suggested?

I'm not stating water changes arent necessary, but curious as to why they are being so freely advocated as a starting off point for treatment. This system is over 2 years old, with SPS growing like weeds. There are other fish in the tank which are not being affected by whatever killed the first tang, (2nd pic).

Looking at the 2nd pic, I see a fish dealing with a massive bacterial infection. The cause, I dont know about....I'm not the fish disease guru. Thats why Eric's here to get some info....
I suspect what happened in the first instance was the fish was weak from transport and susceptible to infection....
I have no idea what is happening currently, but it appears to be different situation to me.

Hopefully Steve will be able to give us all a heads up.

Nick

 

[Herefishyfishy]

How do you know what caused the prior loss is still in the tank? ... but it appears to be different situation to me.

Hopefully Steve will be able to give us all a heads up.

Nick

Something is causing damage to this Yellow Tangs fins in this tank as before.
Same specie, same start, same tank, owner hesitant to change water so possibly even same water. Nothing obviously has changed in the tank. How do you know it is a different situation?

Unless the fish arrived into a perfect tank as a diseased fish, I would change some of the less than perfect water as a starter unless you can establish that water changes are detrimental to healing.

 

[ronj]

I'm not stating water changes arent necessary, but curious as to why they are being so freely advocated as a starting off point for treatment

if it is bacterial, having the cleanest water possible can help....when in doubt, do a water change....water changes can never hurt, they can only help the situation..

 

[NaH2O]

Lunchbucket - were both the tangs from the same source? How long was the time frame between the introduction of the new tang and the loss of the other tang? How long was the other tang in your system before it started showing signs of disease? How is the tangs behavior...is it still acting normally?

Your pH may not be ideal, but at least your pH swing is a small one. Boomer has said pH swings are to be no more than 0.15 in a day.

 

[steve-s]

Eric,

The image of your current tang above has a red hue in the image. Is that the camera or actually on the fish? Are there any other symptoms aside from the fins being frayed? Loss of appetite, color, swimming behavior, etc?

The pic of the second tang, what was the time frame and did the area's ever become red/inflamed? Was the belly always irregularly shaped and do you treat for worms (Praziquantel) on arrival of new fish.

The pH needs to be corrected. I understand the swing to some degree but you need to work on keeping the pH level above 8.0 at all times. Preferably closer to 8.2 on the low side.

Do you have a QT tank set up/cycled?

 

[Lunchbucket]

sorry guys i didnt' get any emails of thread updates. so i'm here now

only reason i asked about the water change is what Maxx asked. never heard of that before as a treatment. i do understand water quality is the main cause of many diseases and doing a change can't hurt.

just so you all know i do 10-15gal water changes every other week. so the water quality should be premo. also i have an oversized skimmer, feed light IMO,...generally keep everything up to tip top shape.

i usually order my salt from drfostersmith.com it is cheap and shipping is VERY cheap. the LFS's around here charge like 60bucks for 160gal of IO

both tangs were from the same source. my LFS. they always look great in his tanks. i check everyone over really well. he won't sell anything if it is showing any signs of disease. he does not use copper to mask things either.

the first tank (2nd pic) had a bad bacteria infection? it turned into one finless ulcerous fish. i just wanted him to die and let him go to a better place this happend about 2wks after introcution maximum. it started one day as a something that looked like nipped fins and in 3days it was a gonner

good thing is that the current yt is healing up his fins. must have been just a nipper?? i never saw anyone nipping at him as he is the dominanat one. i did feed him plenty of garlic and zoe soaked nori. maybe it boosted his immun system.

sadly i don't have a QT tank for incoming fish i live in a very small apt and the wife will kill me if i have another tank taking up more room. yes this is a lame excuse but guys you know the wives win when i have a house i plan on having the 58gal as a qt and having a bigger display.

the 1st pic does look like it has a reddish hue but that is ONLY the camera! he does not look like that in person!

there were no other symptoms besides frayed fins. he ate like a champ as usual, swam normal, normal breathing, etc.

Steve - i do not treat for worms on arival but i do have some prazipro. bought some when it was a possible treatment for PM disease in clams...never used it though

i would love to have my pH higher but i run a ca rx on a 58gal and live in a small apt that gets shut up during the winter. so closed apt = lower pH i'd love to drip some kalk to help raise it but the ca takes care of all my demands. i did just add a fuge and am running cheato on a reverse lighting cycle. started that sunday so we will see if it helps w/ the pH. i have talked to quite a few people and they have stated no ill effects from pH of 7.9something. i have had to run that pH in my old 20h and in teh 58gal. so about 5-6yrs and have never really seen much ill effect except a little more then usual algae growth.

i hope i answered everyones questions....please let me know if i did not.
the tang looks healing up...just like a nipped fin but i'd like to make sure it's not somethign else

thanks
Lunchbucket

 

[steve-s]

Did you do the water changes?

The reason that was recommended earlier was the fish will often heal well enough if the problem is very mild (bacterial wise). As long as stress is low and the diet is optimum, reducing the DOC in the water will allow the fish to heal itself in most cases. Do not confuse good water readings with low DOC, they are not the same. Zero nitrogens just indicate a well functioning biofilter. The DOC comes before the ammonia

For advanced cases it may buy you some time but water changes otherwise would not help. On the bright side though, they don't hurt.

I would not use the Prazipro in your main system. If you can get either a premedicated food with Prazi or an additive like Gel Tek, then I would definitely consider it.

As for the pH, do try to slowly repair that upwards of the 8.2ish range at all times. True what you say people don't really see ill affects but what they also don't see is how much healthier and easier the tank is to maintain and the animals within it. Try to find a way to employ the kalk. If shut in for the winter, it's going to help a lot. Also ensure your tank top/refugia/sump are uncovered as much as possible. Since CO2 is already an issue, build up will just make it that much harder.

What do you usually feed the fish/tang and are any suppliments used?

As for the previous tang, definitely something that would have required treating in a QT tank. Something you will need to consider for future even if the wife needs some other appeasement. Your success with fish will be limited by that one small factor.