crazzyreefer
Crazier than most Reefers
I run a SPS ....unfiltered... UnSkimmed system for one of my tanks, is it ok to buy corals from a person that is using a zeo sytem for this tank, I have conficting info on RC and really would like to know.
ZEO Question
- Thread starter crazzyreefer
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wrightme43
Well-known member
No matter what test everything anyone tells you. I would try it and see but that is just me. I am hard headed and do what I think is right. Sometimes I learn the hard way, but on this, I dont think a few corals from a zeo tank if they are bug free could bring any harm to your system.
Let me ask you this though. Why dont you run a skimmer? Not a knock just wondering the reasoning behind it.
Let me ask you this though. Why dont you run a skimmer? Not a knock just wondering the reasoning behind it.
NaH2O
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2004
- Messages
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Hmmm...we touched briefly on this in the Zeovit thread. I'll have to dig through the thread and find the info. I think the folks that use Zeovit posted that it isn't a problem. From what I remember, the coral will have to go to relying on light for food instead of being fed via the Zeovit system. What are the reasons you are receiving for both sides?
crazzyreefer
Crazier than most Reefers
I dont run a skimmer because this tank is filtered only with sponges, and the colors are great, and it takes vary little maintenance, its stable, and hasn't crashed in the 5-6 years its been running, its also BB.. so go figure... now I dont recommend this system to anyone... so dont take this tread as a way of saying you dont need a filter... most people do... I have learned ways around it.. that's all...
the question would the coral rtn, I know it wouldn't hurt my tank.. but I dont also want to put 500.00 in frags into a tank that they will rtn in. a coral farmer was having issues uopn the sale of zeo corals to non-zeo people.. so he stopped the zeo system, he lost alot of stock (rtn) when he did this and many others bleached, I saw this first hand... He is my client....I also read on the great zeo war thread on RC...that the reason behind many of the people that use zeo wanted their own forum because of issues like this... this tells me that there is a problem of acclimating zeo corals into non-zeo systems...
the question would the coral rtn, I know it wouldn't hurt my tank.. but I dont also want to put 500.00 in frags into a tank that they will rtn in. a coral farmer was having issues uopn the sale of zeo corals to non-zeo people.. so he stopped the zeo system, he lost alot of stock (rtn) when he did this and many others bleached, I saw this first hand... He is my client....I also read on the great zeo war thread on RC...that the reason behind many of the people that use zeo wanted their own forum because of issues like this... this tells me that there is a problem of acclimating zeo corals into non-zeo systems...
wrightme43
Well-known member
No I agree I wouldnt want to try it with 500$ worth. I wouldnt risk anymore than 100 on testing something. Thats just me. I cant tell you for certain what would happen. It would seem that with out a skimmer and with out any filters that the corals could just go right back to feeding on stuff in the water colum. I have no proof of this only a gut feeling. Corals rtn when they are already on the ragged edge of survival and something changes faster than they can adapt. Kinda like running for 10 miles as hard as you can and coming to a big hill that is just too much to go up. When your fresh no problems but tired...
NaH2O
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2004
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crazzyreefer - my thoughts are the coral would brown out at first when put into your system. It would be going from a nutrient free system like zeo-vit is, to a more nutrient system like your skimmerless system. I also can't say for sure the corals wouldn't RTN, and they may even RTN for different reasons other than going from zeo to non-zeo.
Skimmy
SKIM FU
well, sponges are suppose to be the best "living filters", i would think that if your phos and trates are very low to nil that the corals would be fine, with mabye a little loss of color. i would love to see pics of your sponge filter. is it a "tyree zonal sponge filter", where it's pich black chamber in sump with low flow? or one of your own design?
liveforphysics
Banned
Thumbs up for not skimming!
I also dont skim, filter, and hardly ever water change. Just circulation and light is all a tank needs to thrive. I find little sponges on my rocks all over, and I hold a rock solid zero nitrate with no DSB to rely on silly anerobic bacteria to waste my precious nitrate without export any phosphate with it (like macro algae's would enable).
Now, I would personally guess that if the lighting is equivaliant, there would be no reason for zooanthal to brown. My guess is that your tank will just enable much faster and healthier growth rates do to properly feeding the corals.
First off, I'm far from a pro at understanding corals. The construction of 95% of corals appears clearly have hands for grabbing macro plankton. Your tank is not skimming out the auto-trophic algae cells which are the basis of a healthy variety of macro plankton food supply. I personally cant understand why the corals would to anything but grow faster, assumeing your lighting and flow is equivaliant.
But, then again, I'm an engineer and student who managed to never take a single biology course...
I would personally ask about the exact lighting setup that the guy you are buying them is useing (depth, PAR, estimated color temperature) and try to at least temporarily match it.
Good luck to you, and remember im just an amature.
-Luke
I also dont skim, filter, and hardly ever water change. Just circulation and light is all a tank needs to thrive. I find little sponges on my rocks all over, and I hold a rock solid zero nitrate with no DSB to rely on silly anerobic bacteria to waste my precious nitrate without export any phosphate with it (like macro algae's would enable).
Now, I would personally guess that if the lighting is equivaliant, there would be no reason for zooanthal to brown. My guess is that your tank will just enable much faster and healthier growth rates do to properly feeding the corals.
First off, I'm far from a pro at understanding corals. The construction of 95% of corals appears clearly have hands for grabbing macro plankton. Your tank is not skimming out the auto-trophic algae cells which are the basis of a healthy variety of macro plankton food supply. I personally cant understand why the corals would to anything but grow faster, assumeing your lighting and flow is equivaliant.
But, then again, I'm an engineer and student who managed to never take a single biology course...
I would personally ask about the exact lighting setup that the guy you are buying them is useing (depth, PAR, estimated color temperature) and try to at least temporarily match it.
Good luck to you, and remember im just an amature.
-Luke
Casperson
Active member
Hi Luke and crazyreefer,
Can you explain how your not getting any nitrate concentration without "hardly water change". What size tank and how much of a bio load do you have.
respectfully,
Tom C
Can you explain how your not getting any nitrate concentration without "hardly water change". What size tank and how much of a bio load do you have.
respectfully,
Tom C
scottwoooo
New member
crazzyreefer,
You can not run the zeovit method w/out a skimmer. You will need a Skimmer, a way to keep your calcium around 420, and a zeovit reactor (100gph pump, for each 100 gallons of tank water)
If you don't mind, do you know who this was? I have not heard from any of dealer/sellers that ran zeovit and killed his corals. You can pm me or have him email me if you wish.
Check out www.zeovit.com, there are a lot of people on there using and not using zeovit that trade corals that have ZERO problems.. As a matter of fact I have never heard of anyone having problems with this. The real reason we started zeovit.com was so people could post and not worry about being banned, it was a place for anyone to come post there ideas, good or bad without feeling they had to hide.
scottw.
Just so everyone knows, I work for Captive Oceans. Didn't want people to think I am hiding it
. old name was evolutionaquatics talked with Chuck and he said it would be best just to start a new name, that is why it shows I joined today.
You can not run the zeovit method w/out a skimmer. You will need a Skimmer, a way to keep your calcium around 420, and a zeovit reactor (100gph pump, for each 100 gallons of tank water)
crazzyreefer said:
If you don't mind, do you know who this was? I have not heard from any of dealer/sellers that ran zeovit and killed his corals. You can pm me or have him email me if you wish.
Check out www.zeovit.com, there are a lot of people on there using and not using zeovit that trade corals that have ZERO problems.. As a matter of fact I have never heard of anyone having problems with this. The real reason we started zeovit.com was so people could post and not worry about being banned, it was a place for anyone to come post there ideas, good or bad without feeling they had to hide.
scottw.
Just so everyone knows, I work for Captive Oceans. Didn't want people to think I am hiding it
. old name was evolutionaquatics talked with Chuck and he said it would be best just to start a new name, that is why it shows I joined today.crazzyreefer
Crazier than most Reefers
thanks scott, this thread isnt the place to make a stand to defend zeo or to attack the system either, just information on other people positive or negative acclamations to non zeo tanks.
the dealer didnt kill his corals from using zeo, just they reacted negativly buy suddenly stoped using the system.
the dealer didnt kill his corals from using zeo, just they reacted negativly buy suddenly stoped using the system.
From my understanding of the zeo concept all you are doing is skewing the food input stratagy. As in you are increasing the capture portion of the food intake stratagy and decreasing the absorbsion portion. With a coral coming from a zeo system one could assume that the coral is coming from a lower nutrient level tank (if your doing it right) to a tank with slightly higher nutrient levels. You would be also once again skewing the strategy, but I dont see any big changes beyond a possible browning out for a short period of time as the coral adapts to the different eniroment. Now this again depends on the difference in the new tank.
Luke, "Just circulation and light is all a tank needs to thrive." thats not going to fly my friend filtration is an absolute, to some degree. Although sponges do PROCESS alot of water they cant be called a complete filtration system. Sponges are all completely different and filter different things out of the water, its not a one stop shop. Most all sponges dont touch detritus, particulates and so on. A few do filter disolved nutrients but again in our system they usually clog up de to the larger quanties of particulate matter that is present in a reef tank. Also ammmonia is one of the most common biproducts of a sponge, so again not an ideal thing to rely on.
Mike
Luke, "Just circulation and light is all a tank needs to thrive." thats not going to fly my friend filtration is an absolute, to some degree. Although sponges do PROCESS alot of water they cant be called a complete filtration system. Sponges are all completely different and filter different things out of the water, its not a one stop shop. Most all sponges dont touch detritus, particulates and so on. A few do filter disolved nutrients but again in our system they usually clog up de to the larger quanties of particulate matter that is present in a reef tank. Also ammmonia is one of the most common biproducts of a sponge, so again not an ideal thing to rely on.
Mike
ethanriley
Well-known member
can we see some pictures of these skimmerless bottomless and filterless systems? I am not being sarcastic I am really interested. What are your tank parameters across the board.
fishermann
Well-known member
Crazy I have a 230 BB system and bought 2 torts from online and they were in a Zeo system and I just glued them in and haven't had a problem. That was 4 months ago.
crazzyreefer
Crazier than most Reefers
ill post pics, im not aginst skimmers, just in this tank, infact I build/design equipment, but as much as I ageree that this isnt a compleate circle, the fish/corals are doing great, I have individual pic, but ill take some tank shots tomarrow. I usally have a vary high bio load due to the fact I sell inverts out if this tank, but I have yet to crash it... am I lucky...yes....that compiled with over 25 years in salt makes it work
crazzyreefer
Crazier than most Reefers
Im not the best picture taker...
