zoa problems - solved????

[ajnweb]

So, here is a little background on the problem.....(sorry, some of the picture are kinda large)

I have a 34 gallon Solana packed with zoas (about 25 colonies), and a 20 gallon frag tank also packed with zoas, completely independent of one another. I added a HOB refugium to the Solana about 2 weeks ago that I painted with plastic paint, and did some piping modifications to the output of the fuge. Sometime around the time I added the fuge, of course I can't exactly remember before or after, the zoas started to look bad, and close up. One colony was closed with only the skirts showing, very unusual, and shortly thereafter the skirts melted/decomposed away, since then the colony is completely gone. The "infection" has seem to targeted about 1/3 to 1/2 of the colonies, with some colonies being completely unaffected. At first I attributed it to the addition of the fuge, thinking that I contaminated the tanks with either the paint or the piping(although the other tank inhabitants including shrimp were fine), then I thought that the trash barrel I was using for RODI water was leaching contaminants, althought the frag tank was fine. Then I thought (and it is still a possibility) that it was a fungal/bacterial infection, since some of the closed zoas have a brown coating on them. PREDATORS were brought up again and again, but I thought the infected zoas were too random for a predator. AND I dipped all of the infected corals in 4 different dips, Furan, Lugols, Melafix (each 3 for 10-15 minutes one after the other), then a freshwater dip for 1-2 minutes. I thought that this would either kill the infection/pest or kill the coral. I though either just watch them die, or possibly kill them trying to treat them, or maybe they would fight off whatever it was that was killing them. But tonight I found a NUDIBRANCH that matched the skirts of my green zoas exactly. However, when I dipped and brushed the zoas nothing came off of them, nothing. So, can a nudibranch that is eating zoas cause them to close up and die, with a brown covering, and maybe even cause a secondary infection. If it is the Nudi, he is busy, or yikes, there is more than one. So here are the pics of the unhappy zoas, and the nudi. Anyone have any thoughts/experiences with Nudis's wiping out there zoas?

Pictures in the next post.................

 

[ajnweb]

Nudi

Here he is, he is the "zoa" in the middle of the pic, in the closed up zoas

unhappy zoas, notice the brown-ness of some of the closed zoas

This colony was cut in about half, although the surviving zoas look pretty good

This colony is now completely gone, probably cleaned up by the cleanup crew

Colony closed just down the middle, with a brown covering on the closed zoas

Full tank shots

 

[Barbie]

Oh my gosh! I'm so glad you found the predator! The times I've had these nudis they were relatively simple to get rid of. I did fw dips and used the soft bristle tooth brush to clean off any of the egg whirls. Hopefully your tank will be back to it's complete glory in a matter of days .

Barbie

 

[returnofsid]

Tony, I'm glad you finally figured out what is probably causing all the problems!! I can attest to the dipping regimen that Tony's tried, and tried and tried. How is it that the nudis were uneffected by all of these different dips!!!???

Great pic of the Nudi by the way!! Now you'll need to look REALLY closely for egg strands!!

 

[ajnweb]

I hope it was just one! It has been quite awhile since I added any zoas, so he had to be in there awhile or, he came in on a piece of live rock I added to the refugium??? With as damaged as some of the colonies were I am surprised I have not seen him before, it seems like it would have taken quite a bit of time to tear up the entire colony.

I also noticed an emerald crab really picking at some zoas tonight, the colony that had the closed stripe right down the middle, I am assuming that the emerald is just eating the dead/dying zoas, I hope!

 

[Barbie]

The Nudis I had were very tenacious, hence, the soft toothbrush. They would hide inside the zoo while it closed around them, I think.

Barbie

 

[ajnweb]

Yikes How big are the babies? This guy was about 1/2 inch, maybe a little less. Maybe this is why some of the zoas that are closed are not completely closed, with their skirts still sticking out, because they have a nudi inside.....of course this logic means I have about 100 nudis in the tank.

The Nudis I had were very tenacious, hence, the soft toothbrush. They would hide inside the zoo while it closed around them, I think.

Barbie

 

[ajnweb]

So Barbie, you were saying that peppermints may eat aptasia eating nudis....will they eat other nudis? If so maybe time for me to add a few more peppermints?

 

[Barbie]

Peppermints will not eat the nudis, that I know of. I didn't have any problem eradicating them, honestly. I did fw dips once a week, checked for the egg masses and kept an eye on them when the lights were off with a flashlight in the morning and evening. I think I ended up finding 3 or 4 adults and 10 or so little ones over a two week period. You'll see a significant amount of recovery from the polyps in the next few days if you get the adults out of there.

On a side note, post that you'll save them for people and I know a couple customers with SPS tanks locally would probably purchase them from you .

Barbie

 

[tat2z_21]

WOW, that sucks. I had an outbreak of Zoa killer nudi's and it wasn't good. Every time I thought I had the last of them another one would pop up. I finally did a couple of fresh water dips and away they went. Also took more then half of my zoo's with it. Hope you have a better out come with the war on zoo terror.

 

[ajnweb]

So far one colony completely gone, and looking like I may lose one or two more, but now that I know what I am looking for I fell alot better.

WOW, that sucks. I had an outbreak of Zoa killer nudi's and it wasn't good. Every time I thought I had the last of them another one would pop up. I finally did a couple of fresh water dips and away they went. Also took more then half of my zoo's with it. Hope you have a better out come with the war on zoo terror.

 

[ajnweb]

Oh, so they can eliminate their zoas that are killing their SPS. Too bad, I would have saved this guy had I been thinking about it. If I find more I will save them, actually, they are pretty cool looking.

On a side note, post that you'll save them for people and I know a couple customers with SPS tanks locally would probably purchase them from you .

Barbie

 

[ajnweb]

Any thoughts on using Flatworn Exit, last paragraph in the article below? I just did a flatworm treatment on the tank about a week ago, I think it was post refugium, so the Nudi would have been in the tank, and yet he obviously was not killed.

http://zomania.com/index.php?main_page=page_3&zenid=c271a2a263a4408b4a09c2ee10644175

ZOANTHID-EATING NUDIS 101This article was originally meant to be a multi-page essay with detailed instructions on how to go through the painful eradication process. Thanks to a fellow reefer and zoanthid enthusiast, we all have much less work now: I only have to write a page or so, and everyone with a nudi problem can get rid of these pests in 5-minute for $20.00. For all those who have some interest in reading more about zoanthid eating nudis, dive right in. If you just want to kill them, skip to the very bottom of this article.Origin
To the best of our knowledge, our nasty little predators originate in the Pacific, notably the Solomon Islands.

Natural Predators
There are a number of fish that reportedly prey on zoanthid eating nudis, however, we’ve tried many and experienced a limited amount of success. We attribute this to the nudis’ ability to adapt to their predators, which we will discuss in detail later in this section.

All fish supposedly preying on nudis belong to the Halichoeres category of the Wrasses, and the Chaetodon family of the Butterfly Fish. Both have a number of downsides that make them unfit predators for most tanks.

Chaetodon: Too large for most tanks; preys on the same zoanthids you are trying to save; the most vicarious nudi eater, Chaetodon Semilarvatus, is, at $120 and up a pricey option.

Halichoeres: Not nearly as efficient as the Butterflies; suicidal jumpers; nudis seem to be an acquired taste that varies from individual fish to fish, many are not reef safe.

Zoanthid Hit List
Just like any other animal, nudis have preferences when it comes to food. Some polyps are much more likely to become infested than others. In general, your Paythoa and Protopalythoa (People Eater Varieties) will remain nudi free, even in case of serious infestations. Palythoa have too hard of a skin to eat or lay eggs in, Protopalythoa have on occasion found stray nudis getting too close to their tentacles to be a nice treat.

Next on the list of least likely to be affected zoanthids are Caribbean morphs of the zoanthus sociatus family. While closely related to Pacific zoanthids, we have observed very little infestation. This may simply be due to the absence of zoanthid eating nudis in Caribbean waters.

Extermination
As promised above, this solution will take 5 minutes and cost all of $20.00. First, get yourself enough Salifert Flatworm Exit to treat your tank two times. Each Package contains enough solution for 300 gallons of water. Then dose your tank according to instructions and watch the nudis turn inside out and die. Since the process does not kill eggs, you will have to repeat the process a week later. Since no adults are left to lay more eggs and eggs hatch within 3-4 days, you will have a 100% success rate. Additionally, since there are only few nudis in a system at a time, you won’t have to do any water changes to dilute toxins. (even a few hundred in a large tank is considered little compared to the number of flatworms you could have)

 

[luisse25]

i feel your painlong time ago(not too long) i bought a colony of zoas...they were open in the LFS where i bought them...i went home of course i always examine all corals before putting it in my tank..i havent seen nudis before but i heard about them so when i saw one in the colony i knew it is nudis,i saw a bunch of eggs,scrape it off and even cut off the polyps that has nudi eggs..then i put it in a qt...
i went and bought melafix(thats when i learn coral dipping) mix it in the saltwater and put couple drops of fwe...i dipped the colony for 5 mins and shook it really good under the water...3 more small nudis came off...
the colony didnt open up really good for a few days then after a week i dipped it again(melafix and fwe)...found 3-5 more baby nudis really tiny..
then i decided to frag the colony as im thinking they might be hiding in the rock...
i put the frags one by one in my main tank thinking they are free of nudis and im really positive theres no more..which im wrong...after couple weeks of flashlighting every night,i saw a bunch of nudi eggs in one of my big colony of zoas...i quickly took it out and dipped it,scrape out all eggs with razor blades..found 1 adult nudi...
i was getting deppressed because its in my DT now...then i saw 2 frags of my other zoas that are not looking good and is not opening all the way i knew theres nudis..so i dipped it found 1 on each...then everynight i keep flashlighting every zoa colony/frags...

now my DT is free of nudis...
the zoas that i dipped with melafix and fwe didnt look good for a while but they bounce back when the nudis were gone...even the colony of zoas where i got the nudis that i fragged are looking good now..all happy.

its weird that a few of your zoas died and melted..i didnt experience that or maybe i spot the nudis right away and eradicated them on time before the nudis can get to eat them...

 

[MGDMIRAGE]

Ack that's horrible i hope he was the only one!

 

[ajnweb]

I might try and doing a Flatworm Exit treatment on the tank, maybe 4 treatments, each one week apart. Any thoughts? Does FE kill Nudibranch?

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Yikes How big are the babies? This guy was about 1/2 inch, maybe a little less. Maybe this is why some of the zoas that are closed are not completely closed, with their skirts still sticking out, because they have a nudi inside.....of course this logic means I have about 100 nudis in the tank.

With predator infestations, for each one you see, count on 50-300 that you don't.
Time to get busy. PM FINN for advise, Marty knows a lot about Zoas

 

[estanoche]

I have some Potassium Permagnate (lab grade) if you want to try this method that Eric Borneman discusses for MEN, may work on the zoas eating variety, not sure how it will affect the soft tissue on the zoas though... more research required before we hit "go".

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/eb/index.php

 

[Ed Hahn]

Peppermints will not eat the nudis, that I know of. I didn't have any problem eradicating them, honestly. I did fw dips once a week, checked for the egg masses and kept an eye on them when the lights were off with a flashlight in the morning and evening. I think I ended up finding 3 or 4 adults and 10 or so little ones over a two week period. You'll see a significant amount of recovery from the polyps in the next few days if you get the adults out of there.

On a side note, post that you'll save them for people and I know a couple customers with SPS tanks locally would probably purchase them from you .

Barbie

he hehe.....Barbie, you are awesome!

 

[ajnweb]

That is what I am afraid of. Hopefully just one adult came in on a live rock I added to the fuge, hopefully! Looks like it could be a busy evening for me. FINN is who recommended the dips I used, thanks for the heads up though.

With predator infestations, for each one you see, count on 50-300 that you don't.
Time to get busy. PM FINN for advise, Marty knows a lot about Zoas