11 month Ich cycle, is it ALL GONE???

[Herefishyfishy]

"INTERESTING FIND: If no new MI is introduce into an infected aquarium, the MI already there continues to cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the MI has ‘worn itself out’ and becomes less infective. A tank can be free of an MI infestation if it is never exposed to new MI parasites for over 11 months."

"5. A fish that survives an attack may develop proteins in the mucous coating that will help fend off the parasite (this is a type of immune response). An immune fish will not get infected. Unfortunately. . .(see 6. below). . .

6. An immune fish doesn’t remain immune. Separated from the disease for months, the once immune fish can become MI infected."

This seems to be pretty conclusive. A tank that has had MI introduced with nothing new added for 11 months, will be considered MI free?

Are you sure that the inhabitants are not just immune to the MI present?

Simply put, a tank that has an outbreak and the fish survive for 11 months can have new fish that have been QTed and copper treated, and when introduced to the 11 month Ich cycled tank, that they will not then contract MI?

I hope this is the case as I know many reefers who had healthy coral tanks yet with an Ich infected Tang that they gave up catching. They have told me no signs of disease for over 1/2 a year to a year.

Feedback from Lee and others?

 

[Reeferdude]

A very astute observation. Many conclusions are simply unresolved. I'm not sure but I know that some human illness' that can be shared with pets are the result of dormant viral parasites they can lay dormant for decades with few noticeable symptoms until it is so pronounced they creates harm to it's host. I think a longer observation period would be more conclusive...

 

[leebca]

Are you sure that the inhabitants are not just immune to the MI present?

Yes. When new Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) is introduced, they got infected.

Simply put, a tank that has an outbreak and the fish survive for 11 months can have new fish that have been QTed and copper treated, and when introduced to the 11 month Ich cycled tank, that they will not then contract MI?

Yes, providing that no new parasites are introduced during that time.

 

[DonW]

This one I have a hard time swallowing, just because of my most recent experience. Last week I removed my chiller to get it ready to trade it off. I forgot to plug in the fans and my temp rose to nearly 88f. Next morning all three of my tangs had ich and worsened for three days until it started to clear up and is now no longer visible. This tank has had no additions for long time, well in excess of 11 months. This is the first time Ive ever seen MI in this tank.
Any input? or explanation?

Also would like to add I recently just lost every invert in my tank due to copper poisening.

Don

 

[leebca]

Swallow or not, it was discovered by others and papers were written. Pull this one up Don: Burgess P.J. and Matthews R.A. 1994. Cryotocaryon irritans (Ciliophora): photoperiod and transmission in marine fish. Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom 74:535-542.

Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.

I can see in your case, Don that the MI haven't gone throug the necessary generations OR (most likely) there was an introduction of some parasites.

 

[DonW]

Swallow or not, it was discovered by others and papers were written. Pull this one up Don: Burgess P.J. and Matthews R.A. 1994. Cryotocaryon irritans (Ciliophora): photoperiod and transmission in marine fish. Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom 74:535-542.



I can see in your case, Don that the MI haven't gone throug the necessary generations OR (most likely) there was an introduction of some parasites.

Can these be carried by humans. For example going to a buddies place and doing some fragging the going back home and cleaning your own tank.

Don

 

[Scooterman]

Don In the past 11 months or so you haven't added anything that could of kept MI in cycle or re-introduce it, even though you haven't seen it?

 

[Reefergeorge]

Swallow or not, it was discovered by others and papers were written. Pull this one up Don: Burgess P.J. and Matthews R.A. 1994. Cryotocaryon irritans (Ciliophora): photoperiod and transmission in marine fish. Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom 74:535-542.



I can see in your case, Don that the MI haven't gone throug the necessary generations OR (most likely) there was an introduction of some parasites.

I feel like a weight is lifted. Thanks for the post.

 

[leebca]

The light at the end of the tunnel isn't always an oncoming train!

The only way I can think that could happen Don is if the parasite (in one of its off-fish stage) was kept moist in saltwater. I assumed you dried your hands and didn't have saltwater soaked clothing. Other than such an unusual situation, the parasite can't survive: freezing, drying out, or freshwater when it is in one of its 'off-fish' stages.

Cross contamination isn't hard to do, or missing an infection by performing a quarantine process cut short, or performing an ineffective/partially effective copper treatment. I have no doubt about what you've observed Don, but it is these sorts of things that generate mis-information from what we have hard data on. If you can duplicate the event under controlled conditions, verified by a third party (they have to diagnose the disease, watch the tank, and find the disease 10+ months later by laboratory procedures) you might have the beginnings of a technical paper.

 

[leebca]

There is hope.

If the home marine aquarist knows there is Marine Ich in their marine system, then by not adding any new Marine Ich to the tank, the 'old' Marine Ich will lose its efficacy. Rather than feed more fish to the parasite, the aquarist should wait a few months before attempting to add a properly quarantined and verified Marine Ich-free fish to the system. If that goes well, the aquarist should then continue adding fish at no more than one Marine Ich-free fish every 6-8 weeks.

To keep Marine Ich out of the marine system previously infected but not put through a fishless period, no 'new' Marine Ich must enter the system from then on. The end result, after about a year is a Marine Ich-free marine system.

 

[Planet Reef]

this is very interesting. Thanks for the info.

 

[kevin1000]

Can these be carried by humans. For example going to a buddies place and doing some fragging the going back home and cleaning your own tank.Don

No way .. no how .. even in our rainy environment I can't image transfering ich on human hands to your buddies house. Borderline Rod Serling/Twilight Zone stuff.