20000k AB DE Bulbs

[Maxx]

I'm currently running two Icecap Electronic 250 watt ballasts....
I was just curious.
I know Radium's dont come in DE versions.....I was wondering if the E-ballasts will run at less wattage than the normal ballasts...meaning not overdriving. I'm just being lazy...I know where to look to find the answers to my questions....
I jsut wanted the all knowing Mojo to save me the trouble...




Nick

 

[Maxx]

Okay...On JBNY's site, (www.cnidarianreef.com) he's showing a max draw of 275 watts and an operating draw of 248 watts using the Icecap E-ballasts.
So I need to think about possibly using Luminarcs, and going to a Mogul base reflector in order to run Radiums....

Sorry to totally derail your thread Chuck.

Nick

 

[mojoreef]

That would be about the worst lighting set up you could get Nick. You would be pushing a whopping 60 ppfd lol..but then again think of all the energy savings??!!?? hehehe


Mike

 

[big t]

Ya nick, on a regular ballast the 250w radiums are BLUE BLUE BLUE!!! They look great on HQI tho, nice crisp blue white, and 85ppfd is working good for my 10" deep frag tank.

 

[Maxx]

So you're saying that overdriving the bulb causes the colorshift from Blue to a crisp blue/white?

That would be about the worst lighting set up you could get Nick. You would be pushing a whopping 60 ppfd lol..but then again think of all the energy savings??!!?? hehehe

Are you looking at Sanjay's numbers, Mike or JBNY's? Keep in mind Sanjay's numbers dont include a reflector, JBNY's do.

Looking at JBNY's site, I see the 250 W Radium bulb puts out a PAR value of 330, where as my AB10K's, (JBNY calls 'em 13K's for some reason...I dunno) are putting out a PAR value of 422. JBNY's test was on SE bulbs only, and the AB20K is a DE only bulb, so he doesnt have any info on it.

However, Sanjay's Reef Lighting Pages does.

a quick note to anyone following along who might want some translation:
PPFD = Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density
PAR= Photosynthetically Active Radiation, (light usable for photosynthesis)
Both are used to measure a lights intensity for keeping corals and plants

Okay, back to Sanjay...

Spectral Analysis of 250W Mogul base Metal Halide Lamps - PART II shows the ppfd of the 250 w Radium on Icecap's E-ballast to be 66.71 (Remember...no reflector here). But look at the spectral plots of the Radium on both ballasts...pretty similar. Yes the M80 has higher spikes, but not that much higher.....Radium Spectral graph.

Now, in an effort to stop hijacking Chuck's thread and get something relevent to his tank (and mine, currently) I want to compare the DE bulbs...

In More Spectral Analysis of 250 Watt Double Ended Metal Halide Lamps and Ballasts Sanjay shows how the XM DE 20K (XDE 20k) bulb performs...
On the M-80 Ballast 42.4 ppfd
On the IceCap 36.1 ppfd
Both numbers are for shielded bulbs, and w/o reflectors
XDE 20K Spectral Graph

And in Spectral Analysis of 250 Watt Double Ended Metal Halide Lamps and Ballasts - EVC, Happy Reefing, IceCap, AB, and CoralVue Sanjay tests the AB20K bulb

AB20K on M80 ballast 45.7 ppfd
AB20K on Icecap ballast 38 ppfd
Again both bulbs shielded and w/o reflector
AB20K Spectral Graph

Soooo...now that everyone's head is spinning.....I think the AB20Ks are a better choice than the XDE 20K's, and the Radium's are better than both of those.....from a PAR/PPFD standpoint. I havent used any of those bulbs and really need to look out there and see whats available that I like.

BTW,
I already have the Icecaps, and I'm not buying new ballasts to replace these.


Nick

 

[big t]

Ok my brain is starting to hurt. I have pondered sanjay's plots time and time again. I have been looking for different things then you Nick because I have never liked the idea of DE very much. Now I am trying to decide if I really want to bump up to 400w on my main tank running radiums. But jeeze when you run the 400w hqi ballast on the radiums it is 471w and pulling 5.1 amps. So that would be 10.2 amps for my main tank instead of the current 2.8 each totaling 5.6. That would probably be a pretty big bump on the old power bill.

 

[Maxx]

What ballasts do you have now?
I may be way off here, but based on the power usage reported by both Sanjay and JBNY, and the Spectral Graphs of the Radium on the M80 ballast and the IceCap Ballasts, I'd think you'd be fine running Radiums on a 250 watt ballast. I honestly havent seen a Radium being run on an Icecap E ballast...so I cant tell you if it looks too blue or not....but then again, thats a subjective thing anyway.


Nick

 

[big t]

Hey Max, I can tell you it is not that subjective. I have 2 sets of ballasts. On my main reef I have a 2x250 pulse start, I believe it is m153 ballasts inside. On that ballast the radiums are super blue and dimm. On my frag tank I have a 2x250 m80 hqi, and the radiums are bright and crisp blue white. If you want I can take a sidebyside pic of the two running together with the different ballasts driving them. Mind you it will look different in the pics then it does in person, but it should represent the different color pretty well.

 

[Maxx]

I'd like to see how it looks on an Icecap ballast to see if its something I want to consider for a future upgrade.

I have some more spectral graphs saved on my computer at home, (at work now) and wil try and upload them later.

One is an overlapping comparison of the Radium and the AB20K....

Chuck,
What ballasts are you using?

Nick

 

[MtnDewMan]

I am running the Sunlight Supply Blue Wave VII which I believe is an M80 magnetic ballast.

 

[mojoreef]

Nick a 250 radium running on a ice cap ballast is to low and you wont get the par needed down into the water column. I have tried and it sucks..trust me I like the blue, but its to dark even for me. I might have an old 250 watt radium if you want me to send ya one to try.

Again...away from all the numbers and talking from experence in playing around with them I wouldnt run them on anything less then 250 watt hqi's. 400 watt hqi's if you want to keep growth as a good factor


MIke

 

[The Apprentice]

20000k AB DE Bulbs are installed

Ok Guys I just got them in tonight. First question with the new bulbs if I lift my fixture 3 1/2" higher than before will this be enough for My SPS and Clams to get adjusted to?
I don't know if you remember Chuck I was running 14K bulbs on 250 watt PFO HQI ballast. Thanks for any input & Help...Jeff

 

[reedman]

If you are going from 14K to 20K you are probably losing intensity so the acclimation shouldn't be as bad for the corals and clams. I would think you could cut back the photoperiod for a little and slowly bring it back up.

 

[The Apprentice]

losing intensity

Thanks Reed I will cut the time down right now my halides are on for 9 hours should i cut it back to 6?

If you are going from 14K to 20K you are probably losing intensity so the acclimation shouldn't be as bad for the corals and clams. I would think you could cut back the photoperiod for a little and slowly bring it back up.

 

[reedman]

That should be fine and just ramp them back up a half hour a week or so. Watch the corals, they'll let you know if it is too fast or too slow.

 

[Maxx]

Mike,
I appreciate the offer, but I dont have an SE reflector...
I'd love it if Sanjay had the time to incorporate reflectors into his website so as to get a better estimation of how DE PAR values with certain bulbs measure up.
I know he tested DE reflectors awhile back, but I dont believe that data is able to be entered into his website to calculate ppfd values.

Jeff,
Reed is correct in that the intensity of these lights should be lower than 14k bulbs of equivalent age/burn time...
But I would suggest going to HD or Lowes, picking up some eggcrate and window screen and using that to acclimate your corals. Cut the eggcrate to fit the top of your tank as a support for the window screen. Place a couple of layers of window screen up, run your lights the normal photo period, and remove a layer of window screen per week.

My timers are annoying to adjust....

Nick

 

[The Apprentice]

eggcrate

Eggcrate Screen update been under for 2 Days all corals & Clams look good with no ill signs everyone keep fingers crossed

Jeff,
Reed is correct in that the intensity of these lights should be lower than 14k bulbs of equivalent age/burn time...
But I would suggest going to HD or Lowes, picking up some eggcrate and window screen and using that to acclimate your corals. Cut the eggcrate to fit the top of your tank as a support for the window screen. Place a couple of layers of window screen up, run your lights the normal photo period, and remove a layer of window screen per week.

My timers are annoying to adjust....

Nick

 

[Maxx]

Chuck,
Are you still liking the AB20K's?

Nick

 

[MtnDewMan]

Yes I am ... they are not too too blue and they are not too white. I haven't tried any other 20k double ended bulbs so I don't have too much of a comparison between other 20000k bulbs.

 

[Maxx]

But you have had the Hamiton 14k's, I thought?
I'm guessing these look better to you than other bulbs (higher than 10K)?

Nick