A bit nervous

[lvsuckerfish]

t'5 are nice I just don't have patients for the bulb configurations lol a fellow reefer in vegas has a nice t5 mixed tank everything thrives in his tank. I was never aware of only vho running sps in a tank until yesterday. and still some nice tanks. a lfs grew a couple sps in a 3 gl pico with a 50/50 13 watt pc bulb. didn't thrive but it did grow a little...

 

[TJL]

VHO, T5HO, MH Your choice

you will need to upgrade your lighting to keep them most all sps are high light demanding corals. I would trade or sale for what you want to stock the tank with.

I don't think I'm testy, just educated and experienced in keeping reef tanks for 27+ years. As above you clearly stated that he will need to upgrade lighting to keep most sps and to trade/sell what he already has That is misinformation plain and simple. Graham, Bigblue And Reef18ster have all seen my tank with VHO lighting and they can comment freely on if I have enough lighting for any sps, clams or whatever. Pocillopora do not require a whole lot of lighting and even pc's would work.

My whole point and source of iritation with comments like above is it propogates false information and will cause unneccesary expenses for those just starting out. I like the look that mh imparts in the tank but you can also get a shimmer affect with LED lighting added to VHO, T5HO or PC systems. If you would have stated your preference was for mh lighting that would have been a valid opinion which everyone should feel free to voice.

Todd "Old Salt"

 

[TJL]

sampets1984

Welcome to Reef Frontiers and sorry for my ranting, but being an Old Salt I have learned like Graham stated that alot the so-called have to do's just don't hold much water. What you have will work great for most livestock you would choose to keep. I chose VHO lighting a long time ago and it works great for me but, in reality MH-VHO-T5HO = Chevy-Ford-Mopar or for the youngsters Toyota-Nissan-Honda all work just fine.

As I stated you are more than welcome to visit and see for yourself.

Todd

 

[lvsuckerfish]

OKay "Todd Old salt" lol reading in chronological order my post was before the author posted about Pocillopora and below I did state that coral with a few others will do great with that lighting. Is this a forum for information of ones opinion or is "Todd's way"?
Just like a skimmer or anything else you would buy. read all my post then feel free to get irratated.... and IMO all corals will color up better under VHO supplement lighting as for the reason I plan on using them for my 100 and 240 systems.

I would still like to see photos of your tank.

 

[reef18ster]

Welcome to this thread Todd, I was wondering when you were going to chime in. I've seen Todd's tank and everything in it looks amazing, including the sps all under VHOs.

 

[kevinpo]

Hello.
I'm starting my 26th year in reef keeping. I have used one of the the first 72" actinic bulbs shipped from Japan in 1986 along with three Vitalight 72" bulbs. These were NO fluorescent bulbs and I was able to keep some soft corals alive.

That being said, a rating of about 550 PPF is required to keep some of the high light SPS. PPF is a more accurate and useful way to determine lighting needs than types of lighting. If you can achieve these numbers with whatever type of lighting you choose then you will have the coloration and growth expected for the types of corals that do best under this amount of light.
I run VHO, T-5 HO, and 400W halides but have only been able to achieve the numbers of 550+ PPF and Higher with 400W halides in my configuration (which means to say that in the manner I currently run my lighting I don't get those numbers with other than 400W or 250W halides.)

If growth rate is a consideration then 1-1.5" a month is a normal rate for the average SPS coral.

In regards to chemical warfare it is not so much species dependant as individual animals. As with people the resistance and/or adaptation to certain chemicals can be a function of time and genetic makeup. This results in many variations of reported tolerance between different species of coral. IME some coral individuals will develop a tolerance over time to other tank inhabitants but when a new member is introduced, regardless of species, the defensive sweepers will come out in many individuals who are long time residents.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[sampets1984]

Well I took the 2 SPS to barrier yesterday afternoon so the nervousness is gone. I am not going to lie based on what I read in some of the posts i got even more nervous so I took them in. At least they will have a fighting chance vs someone who just got into them. I am currently looking at putting together a 125 and trying mostly sps in that. So I have to pick up all those fancy test kits and such. I didn't have any test kits so i was scared something would go wrong and nuke all that I had. I do appreciate the info and also the old school salty.

I found out the greenish one was actually a green birdsnest by the way.

 

[jezzeaepi]

That is a good choice my friend. Its best to take things slow and steady in the hobby. Picking up those fancy test kits will help you a ton in learning how the chemistry in the tank is constantly changing, and how to keep things in check. Id recommend an alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, nitrate, and phosphate tests kits. Those are the ones you should be using most; The rest are not used that often. Id get a refractometer as well. PH is also somewhat "helpful," but not really because it will fluctuate the most throughout the day. The typical home reef ranges from 7.8-8.3 throughout the day. Good luck with your tank.

Peace,
Jesse

 

[TJL]

sampets1984, Thank you and once again "Welcome to RF" This is an incredible hobby that I obviously take very seriously "I don't play God with a light hand". I have seen some amazing advances in this industry in lighting, understanding water chemistry & skimming in particular in the last 25+ yrs. So now, most of the so called 'Newbs' have a wealth of good information available to them from the internet, books, LFS and even from 'Old Salts' that often learned the hard way. I started saltwater in 1980 with a fish only, reverse flow undergravel filters and dead coral for deco and NO flo bulbs in 'Daylight' spectrum. In 1982 while working at a LFS and after reading a industry publication about a new 'Berlin' method of reefkeeping I promptly sold off old systems and set up new tanks with live rock that came in covered in amazing life on it. I added fish and whatever invert that was available and have never looked back. I was able to keep softies, anemones, button polyps (zoanthid family) and even some LPS corals like Hammers and Brains alive in the tanks w/o Butterflies & Angels. Funny side note we used to be able to buy LPS like Lobos and such as "Live marine fish food" for $6-8 pc and while originally doing so used to say to myself "WOW those are are really cool wish there was a way of keeping those alive my tank as well".

Ahh I digress in thoughts of old... as said enjoy this amazing hobby and never feel nervous in asking questions.

P.S. Kevin what meter have you used in measuring the PPF levels, I would love to see where my VHO lighting sits as well as some of the new HO LED's

Thanks, Todd

 

[bigblue141]

Just for the record...

Todd's tank is amazing. Both of them. They are very well cared for and are much brighter than tanks I've seen that are lit by halides.

Pictures would not do his tanks ANY JUSTICE. They are must see tanks to fully appreciate them.

BTW:
Todd, do you have any extra Mylar, or do you know where it can be purchased locally?

 

[TJL]

Canopy mod w/ Mylar

Hey, Thanks man and I do have some extra Mylar if you'd like. I bought it at TAP Plastics, for those of you whom are curious I line my canopy with it for maximum light reflection and dispersement and let it hang down in front & back to further direct it. Here is a few older pics of lighting and tank, since I've replaced/upgraded to 48" 110w bulbs and added a few more SPS pieces and couple more clams.

Todd

 

[sampets1984]

Well I was thinking for my 125 I really didn't want a canopy really I wanted to have my lights suspended above my system. Only thing is I have been trying to think of a way of having metal beams basically bolted to the back to the back of the stand and high enough to basically suspend over the tank itself just trying to figure out what is a proper height. I am looking at my 90 set up and it is a mess bad brown algea and all that and it just frustrating it seems best just to start over from scratch with another aquarium.

 

[TJL]

I've seen a couple threads on 'Tank Design' & 'DIY' that showed some pretty cool adjustable brackets for hanging lights you could check out. as far as the algae cycles it doesn't matter much which type of lighting system you choose all tanks go through it, water changes and high water flow rates will expedite it a bit but until the tank matures biologicaly its natural and unavoidable if starting from scratch ( not using all/most live/cured rock, substrate and water. You'll always hear patience is the biggest hurdle and this point in cycling is the hardest to let ride. Good luck and I'm sure in a few more weeks it'll all start to come together for you.

Todd

 

[TJL]

One more thing to consider when choosing lighting, where will you be viewing from. Meaning, standing, sitting etc. if your tank is tall or are primarily going to see your tank while sitting on a couch a hanging or pendant style light tends to be a little harsh on the eyes unless there is some sort of shield that goes all the way to top of tank or lidless canopy. I think shallow low elevation open tanks with Halide pendants look incredable and offer amazing top down views of livestock. And sure I'll end up with one a some point.

Todd

 

[sampets1984]

that argument is a bit tough considering hanging something from the ceiling of an apartment is damn near impossible hah. unless i had access to the top of it some how.

 

[TJL]

I was also referring to crane-arm style brackets that attach to back of stand or even shelf type brackets off wall. All I'm saying is that if your viewing perspective is low you'll want a lighting system that doesn't shine in your eyes.

Todd

 

[sampets1984]

oh now I get what your saying lol I just woke up from a nap now i get what your saying. I just upped the flow in the 90

 

[TJL]

Hey, No problem and when/if you decide on upgrading to the 125 if you can move as much live everything including water it will greatly reduce the cycling period that it'll go through. I think you're learning fast and everything should be doing great shortly. The FUN part has just begun

Todd

 

[sampets1984]

SO just for the record the 2 sps I had were good starters once my 125 is all cycled right? Ive heard alot of situations regarding the aggressive side of them but when I go into reef stores they have them all spread apart just enough I assume so they don't start to fight. So is that a good theory to work around when its up and cruising? or am I just playing to much into what i read .

 

[TJL]

Ya, you got it both are pretty good starter sps and neither are very aggressive. That said they do have more fire power than say Montiporas but way less than Hydnophora and most LPS. As Kevin was stating about chemical warfare between corals, some get along fine, others after a little getting use to and some not at all. You will learn alot of this with time but listening and reading up on particular corals your interested in will give you a good idea where & where not to place neighboring colonies. Not super advanced but a great reference book on corals is Julian Sprungs bokk "CORALS a Quick reference Guide" it has a very easy chart for most of the common corals we see (Lghting Needs - Water Flow - Aggressiveness - Hardiness) I have a mixed reef with softies, lps, sps, zoas & clams and purposely placed shedding corals like leathers and more aggressive corals like Hydnophora & GSP to where the current takes it to overflow and not over more fragile sps colonies. I placed my large Frogspawn up high and away from others so its 3-5" sweepers cant reach any other corals. With a little time you can be very creative in mixing corals for a more diverse look. I have a mixed colony of Euphylia (Pink & Green Frogspawn and Green Hammer all mixed together) Pink & Blue Milli mixed together, Red & Green & Purple rimmed Monti together and have seen some amazing mixed Staghorn Acros & Candycane colonies in other reefers tanks. If you look at actual reefs or very mature systems pics of corals you like, duplicate what other corals that are present and getting along. Check out Peters(Taichimaster)'s pics of his 75g, its not really that old but looks as though he cut a section out of a wild reef and boxed it in acrylic. My tank needs a couple more years to get to that look yet.

You are welcome to see firsthand what I have done and there are several other incredible tanks nearby if you were to arrange a multiple tank tour.

Todd