A Sediment substrate that works

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so you would be removing the top slotted plate and allowing the detritus to simply fall straight into the plenum?

How about trying a gentle backflush just prior to extraction in order to suspend the particles of detritus?

MikeS
 
Ok I guess knowing it sucks is good enough at this stage, So I will get some sand and set up the plenum so we can get some real testing going. Does anyone local have any of this mesh by chance??? Going to a LFS and buying sand is bad enough for the reputation..lol I am going to have to ge incognito...hehehe


Mike
 
:lol: put a bag over your head...or pay a neighborhood kid to go get the sand for ya... :lol:

MikeS
 
I think its cool Mojo. I tore down my 29, at set up a 75, I saw the amount of deterius in the sand even though I cleaned mine. The more I think about it, you guys may have the plan. On a side note, Have you ever seen the way gas pipe is routed? If you have you may of noticed at the lowest points they put a T pipe going lower than the lowest supply point. How do you think three holes drilled in bottom with drop pipes to ball valves would work. I envision that the detirus would fall to the lowest point and when valve was opened it would come out. Potential problems I see would be stuck valves. I have been watching this post. I find it very interesting. I may have to drill holes in my tank as well. Thanks for sharing ideas. Steve
 
OK sorry folks I have been busy this last week. But my tanks all back up and running. So I will get busy on the testing and such, give me a day or so to put it together.

Mike
 
mojoreef said:
Ok I guess knowing it sucks is good enough at this stage, So I will get some sand and set up the plenum so we can get some real testing going. Does anyone local have any of this mesh by chance??? Going to a LFS and buying sand is bad enough for the reputation..lol I am going to have to ge incognito...hehehe


Mike

LOL! :) Tell em you need it for that sandbox.....for the kids..

- Elmo
 
Mike, how is the unit working and how does this thing relate to the riveting, cliff hanging thread on Phosphate buildup w/ Collin Cross?
Nick
 
Yeah Mike spill it.

I am about to commit the sand sin and would like some more info on how this system is working. I love my BB but I sure miss soft tissue brains and some nematodes never hurt anyone.

-Erik
 
Macbeth417 said:
Yeah Mike spill it.

I am about to commit the sand sin and would like some more info on how this system is working. I love my BB but I sure miss soft tissue brains and some nematodes never hurt anyone.

-Erik

Erik,
Mine live happily on 1" tall x 3" acrylic tubes.

Don
 
Any update on this ? After reading 23 pages and thinking this might be the setup for a 150gal i'm working on, then see it come too a screeching halt i'm not sure.
Soooo how bout it Mike or anybody, tell us the good, the bad or the ugly!!!! I'm sure i'm not the only one.
Thanks Keith
 
Ok I have been a little swamped..that and I had to use the tank for a frag swap event. But I got a few days free and the stuff i need to complete. I will get off my lasy butt and finish it.


Mike
 
:eek: didn't know it was tore down for the frag swap. Thanks Mike, now I'll have to go back and reread some,alot of deja vu with the plenum & substrate and undergravel systems of yesteryear.So you have the plenum designed, is the mesh the 250 to 300 you talked about? ,substrate is 1.2 to 2? Must go read.

Keith
 
OK did a bunch of stuff yesterday on it. Ok we have the pics up of the plenum, so that did not change, beyond me cutting out the slats. I did put a Rib piece down the center to support the egg-crate however. I then cut out some egg-crate and placed it on top of the unit.
Ok over the egg-crate I put some 300 micron mesh, I was able to buy a 300 micron sock and canabilized it for the project. I glued the mesh to the edges of the plenum with some crazy glue, it had the seem of the bag on top of the center but I don't think it really pertains.
I poured in a full cup of detrius/waste that I had syphoned from my tank, it was enough to cover the floor of the tank. I put in about 22 inched of water also and then placed the plenum into the tank carefully, so the detritus was still evenly spread (4 tries, lol)
From their I bought a bag of carib sea floor sand. I spent a lot of time rinsing the sand as I didn't want the tank to cloud for the experiment. Once rinsed I poured in the sand, I went with 3 inches.
I poured in the water (FW) into the tank very slowly to try to keep the sand from being disturbed, worked pretty well as I could still see the detritus on the underside of the tank. and attached the mag pump to the plenum. So all was ready.

I added some blue food coloring to the water in the tank and gently stirred it so it was pretty dark. At this none of the colored water entered the sand bed. I had the tank set up on two 5 gallon buckets so I lied under it and turned on the mag pump. It took all of 1.5 seconds for the blue water to be drawn into the plenum under space. Caught me off guard as I expected it to have enough resistance to take a little longer, thus I blew the picture with the camera trying to autofocus. The blue die came through the sand surprisingly even. The edges came through just a split second prior to the balance of the unit. I ran the pump for about 30 seconds.

So here are the results as I saw them:
1: The colored water came through fairly even, with the edges showing up a split second prior. The diffusion was a lot better then I had thought and it did pull a lot of what I would call microscopic dust along with it through the bed. I feel you could go anywhere between 2 and 5 inches if you wanted with out loosing this capability
2: The detritus on the bottom of the plenum was removed I would estimate at about 75%. As in their was still 25% of the detritus still present after running the pump for 30 seconds. Although all of it was not removed I do feel it does exactly what it was supposed to do. If you can periodically remove 75% of the build up its has become a maintainable system. Now also my detritus was larger in particulate size then what I believe you would normally get in this unit.
3: Other thoughts, I don't think a larger mesh would be the way to go, better to allow for the solids to be broken down prior to extraction. I think the pump should only be run for about 5 seconds with a tank between 20 gallons and 90 gallons. This is enough time to accomplish what is desired, (the removal of build up under). The use of a strong pump is needed.

Ok that is all that I can think of right now so throw some questions if I have missed something. I am going to try to salvages some pictures.


Mike
 
Excellent....:D


mojoreef said:
If you can periodically remove 75% of the build up its has become a maintainable system.

Agreed....75% is quite a bit, that should add a considerable amount of time to the effective life of the sandbed...

mojoreef said:
3: Other thoughts, I don't think a larger mesh would be the way to go, better to allow for the solids to be broken down prior to extraction.

My thoughts as well.....

Ony concern....you said the diffusion and extraction happened very rapidly....what sort of impact to think having that much oxygenated water diffusing into the sand bed that quickly will have on the anerobic zone?

MikeS
 
Ony concern....you said the diffusion and extraction happened very rapidly....what sort of impact to think having that much oxygenated water diffusing into the sand bed that quickly will have on the anerobic zone?
Mike I think it will pull all the zones down farther into the setup. I would imagine that the existing anaerobic zone will become oxygenated temporarily until the oxygen is fixed by the faculative bacteria. Some of this bacteria will be drawn down and some out, but I don't think the pull would be anywhere close enough to break down biofilms, thus the majority of bacteria would not be moved.
I think the over all effect would be as follows. With the sucking in of the oxygenated water, their would also be a sucking down of organics and products in various stages of reduction. In the areobic area I would imagine no real change beyond the removal of some of the food sources. this would result is a small die off of bacteria in the lower section of the aerobic zone, no biggie really and might be a source for the lower bacteria.
In the anaerobic zone I would guess that it would also have an amount of food reduction temporarily. the lack of nitrates would cause the bacteria to switch from nitrates to oxygen, but I cant see this lasting more then a day or two.
Over all tank filtration from this unit. I think we would get a fresher start with the areobic zone be flushed down, I think this is a huge plus. The anaerobic zone would go into a state of flux until it removed all the oxygen. I don't see a problem here as we have also reduced the amount of food it needs to reduce. removal of end product from the lowest plenum zone is a huge plus as the build over time concern has been drastically reduced.
Over all mike I like the strong pump and very short running time (5-10 seconds). this gives the unit the power it needs to remove particles and the short period doesn't do to much negative. I think the over all result will be a one day turn over until the aerobic zone is back to normal reduction. On the anaerobic zone I would say 2 to 3 days max for the zone to become aerobic once again, from their I would guess a bacterial flux in population until food once again begins traveling down to it, so a start over but with population fairly intact.


Mike
 
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