Acro trouble

[NWDiver]

I have several acros and a hydnophora that are receding from the bottom up.
The recession looks to be moving perhaps a mm or two per day currently.
Not all of the sps are effected, and the effected coral are in various locations in the tank. Corals in my connected frag tank are not (yet) showing signs.
My aquarium is about 1.5 years old and sps grows very well. Most of the coral having trouble still have great growth tips and polyps showing. The exception is a blue tort that has lost some color and looks a bit grey.
I typically dip all new coral first with CoralRx, rinse and then dip with iodine (tropic marin)
All but one of the effected coral have been in the tank for 6+ months.
Display is lit by 2 15000k 250HQI and two 96w PC.
Frag has a single 15000k 250HQI
Bulbs are 2 months old.
Flow in the 120 is 4 Evo1400s plus return.
Modded Octo250 skimmer.
I run a dual reactor with carbon on one side (2 weeks old) and GFO on the other (1 month old) I have used this reactor for several months.
I use RO water and Salinity salt.
Last 50 gallon water change was 8 days ago.
Light cycle is 7hours full with 1 hr morning actinic and 2 hours evening actinic.
Livestock is 2 occy clowns, Orange spot goby, Green Mandarin, Hippo Tang, and a dogfaced puffer in a connected tank.
I am happy with my parameters:
Sal: 1.026 Refract
Temp 77 to 78 Apex
pH: 8.25 to 8.3 Apex
Mg: 1300 Elos
Alk: 10 Hach
Ca: 450 Elos
N03: 0 Elos
Ammonia: 0 Elos
Nitrite:0 Elos
The system has four tanks connected, a 120 that has the problem, a 30gal sump refug, a 40 frag, and a 40 with a puffer.
The only recent change is a missing wrasse (10 days) , but I have watched the parms closely during that time with no change.
I plan to remove some of the coral and look at it under a mag tonight, but there are no bugs visible to the naked eye.
I will see if I can take some pictures when I pull the coral tonight.
Help?

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Add more lighting hours. one at a time. Often, STN from the bottom up is insufficient light. Cant recall how deep your tank is or size, but a single 250 doesn't cover a lot of real estate as far as acro is concerned.

 

[NWDiver]

Sorry Mike, I'll edit that, It has TWO 250HQI set 7 inches from the water
Two of the effected sps are perhaps 8 inches below waterline.
Do you still think light?

-Todd

 

[tat2z_21]

Todd,

Wish I could give you some advice on this, your tank is immaculate, and your parameters seem to be spot on. You have no crazy algea growth and there are no other indicators. Do you think possibly bugs of some sort, I am just shooting from the hips and have no real advice to offer. Wish I could help out a little more.

Floyd

 

[NWDiver]

Yeah, that is all that I can think of. I sort of hope that I can see something under the scope tonight.
Not sure what else to think...

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Best way to determine bugs is to dip one of the poorer condition ones and see if you get any flatworms in the dip water.

7 hours is a fairly short lighting cycle. The CFCs do little as far as Acros

 

[tat2z_21]

Does it look like the tissue is coming off or just loosing color?

 

[tat2z_21]

"Losing" sorry for the double "oo" I promuse dat I kan spel

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
All the information you posted looks good except I would reduce the alkalinity to 8-9 dKH. Hydnophora species are generally quite hardy and seldom recede except when one or more parameters are askew. I would normally recommend more flow for your described symptoms but although I haven't seen your tank in person the pumps you listed should be sufficient.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[NaTe R]

hey todd sorry to hear about your issues, after reading your post the only thing that caught my eye was the the 4 evo1400's i am running 5 in my 120 and i don't think they are doing enough.

are the corals affected getting good water movement?

 

[Somethings Fishy]

hope your corals make it, sorry to hear about this.

 

[tat2z_21]

Hey Todd, I figured it out on the way home. "Neutrino's" from the sun's radiation are focused into that part of your workshop via the abnormality that is in the earths atmosphere, caused by el nino. Really I have nothing for you but suggest finding a kit that tests for solar radiation.

 

[NWDiver]

Thanks everyone!
I'll get right on that floyd!
The flow feels really more than sufficient in the affected areas. The Hydno would be the only coral that is not in direct flow though it has been happy and growing really fast until this.
@ NaTe R: I keep the powerheads clean, so they move pretty good water. I have noticed that if I let calcium build up on the magnet, they don't perform very well. I bought a spare and rotate it in while soaking the "out" pump in vinegar.
@ Mike: I have bumped the halides to 8 hours, that would be an easy fix >fingers crossed<
@Kevinpo: I can let the alk drop off to 8-9 over the next few days and see.
Planning to do some dips tonight and see what falls off as Mike suggested.
Anyone have experience using superglue on the area of recession?

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Have found superglue can occationally help save some pieces that were last ditch cut off of an RTNing acro, but it does little for STN. Appears to help keep some bacteria to attack from unter the tissue. Better off finding the cause. Good carbon never hurts as it could be chem warefare issues too. .. I suspect insufficient lighting/flow combo. Add some light, chang the flow, then keep hands out of tank for a couple weeks.

 

[NWDiver]

Thanks Mike.
I changed the carbon, only two weeks old, but what the heck.
I am now 8 hours on the halides.
I really don't think it is flow, two of the 1400s point right across the problem areas. I moved them a bit tonight to see if that will help.
I FW dipped two of the corals tonight and poured the water into a very white cup to see what fell off. Nothing other than a few pods and one very little worm looking thing. I wonder if flatworms would be visible or if they would implode due to the lower osmotic pressure.
Water parms would seem unlikely as my connected frag tank has no symptoms, and when I moved the first coral into that tank, the recession seems to have stopped.
Still, I will reduce the alk to see, it can't hurt.
They do get more light in the frag tank due to less depth, the flow should be much the same.
I'll do a waterchange tomorrow...

 

[Herefishyfishy]

OK, move one or more of the affected corals so they are upstream of other potential toxic enemy corals and in good light then hope for the best...

 

[Aquanaut]

I believe this is a chemistry issue. I had the same problem occure last August and was eventually resolved w/ lots of quality salt change perams. Depending on salt brand I have found discrepencies in the mineral levels and had to adjust accordingly. Also, see if you can have Barrier R. do a Elos potassium test! Recenty, the PSAS group held a informative discussion regarding ultra low nutrient systems. And some of the discussion involved keeping a particular balance otherwise it would lead to precipt of potassium which happens in conjunction with ALK higher than 8dkh. Also, can your nitrate kit read a false test? RTN will run rampant if not kept in check. I lost plates of Monti and shriveled my Hydno and RTN'd the centers of my smaller tort colonies in just 2 weeks! Also, step up amino acid supplements and Roto Feast to boost SPS immunity. I hope this adds some insight that some RTN can come w/low chemistry levels not normaly tested.

 

[mcoomer]

As Kevin noted, your alk is a tad high but I doubt it's the culprit. Still, if you can dial your kalk dosing back and get that down to 8 or so that will be better for the tank as a whole. I'm also not convinced that it's your light cycle because I've heard other folks post up shorter photo periods and not run into trouble. I only run mine for 7 hours a day. Since it sounds like you've already set your lights to run for an additional I'd leave it at 7.

I'd do two things for now. First, for the corals. Do you have some Lugol's? If so I'd mix a weak solution of Lugol's and RO and use a small brush or q-tip to brush that solution onto the base of the coral where it's STN'ing. Brush it on the base and overlap slightly on the health flesh. You just need to do this one time. I'd also change your water change schedule up a bit. Rather than doing one large change, I believe you said you did 50 gallons, I'd do 15 gallons every other day for a while. If you've got some sort of toxin building in the water that will keep it at lower levels instead of allowing it to build for a week.

Finally, have you checked for stray voltage in your tank? Do you use a ground probe? You'll get arguments on both sides of this but I happen to fall in the camp of stray voltage being a possible cause of some of the problems we see in our tanks.

Post some updates on the corals that are failing.

Mike

 

[justforfun]

chime in for todd....i know we tested his tank and no stray voltage.....the corals affected the most was a purple slimer ( got fragged)...and a tri color( i think is dead )

 

[NWDiver]

@ Aquanaut Water quality is ALWAYS suspect, but I have the same water (shared sump) running in my frag tank, and the coral recovers in that tank.
Good point about the Nitrate test, they can indeed be wrong. I am sort of a water test nut. I tested with three nitrate tests as I really expected to see a spike with the missing wrasse. Two different Elos kits and a salifert. Nada. I have read nitrate with the Elos on a friends tank, so I expect the Elos kit is probably ok.

Thanks for the input Mike. I have not used Lugols, but I will run to the LFS and hopefully aquire some tonight. How weak a solution? I assume that I can apply it "in tank"?
I have moved to a more agressive water change schedule, planning 20 gallons per week. I should have done this before, but with the low fish load and 200 total gallons everything was doing well... until it wasn't
I got my first shock from a tank a couple of weeks ago, right across my nipples! I leaned against my (seperate) tank and the rim is metal, ouch! It turned out it was a bad powerhead. I checked all the other tanks right away! I do have a grounding probes on the main system. I have a pair on the way for the seperate tank...
I'm letting the alk fall by reducing the dose, and my salt mixes low alk, so that will help as well.
As much respect as I have (a ton) for Herefishyfishy Mike, I don't think it is lighting, but it can't hurt
I don't buy flow as an issue at 46x, and the most affected coral directly in the mix of two 1400s.
All that said, the coral seems to stop receding when I place them in the frag tank. They are a bit closer to the light (same bulb, same age), the flow might be a touch better, and the same water.
The tri-color that justforfun is talking about was hammered, less than half of the several branches had flesh left. Placed in the frag tank, polyps extended the next day and the recession seems to have stopped. We will see.
The purple slimer I fragged into three parts.
Part 1 cut on the flesh and glued to a large base placed into the frag tank > No STN visable after several days.
Part 2 cut 1/2" below the STN, glued to a large base and placed next to part 1 in the frag tank > No further STN visable after several days.
Part 3 cut below the STN with about 2 inches of remaining flesh, left in the display not glued > Completely white in less than 24 hours.
The other sps in the tank look mostly ok, some have a touch of white, but none seem to be getting worse.
I just don't know. I'm hoping that this is a result of the wrasse body decomposing in the tank and will go away soon...