Adding more sand

[LTRN]

I am new to aquariums and have had mine up and running for a month now. When I started everything, I left one 40lb bag of sand out because the bed was pretty deep. Now that I have some fish in there and things have moved around in between the live rock, the bed seems to have shrunk.

I was wondering what would be the easiest (least amount of white out) way to add the additional 40lbs of sand. Also, I have a decent amount of algae growth on the sand bed that I just can't seem to get rid of, any suggestions? Can I add the new sand on top of the algae?

This is what I have so far,

125 gallon tank corner overflows, 85lbs live sand (and one more 40lb bag left), about 150lbs of live rock (already cured), sea urchin pro protein skimmer, megaflow M4 filter, one 50 and one 70 powerheads, 24 red/blue leg crabs, 24 different snails, a sand star, a yellow watchman, a lawnmower blenny, 6 damsels (helped speed up the cylcling), an arceye hawkfish, a sailfin tang, a curly que anenome, and a brown spotted rabbitfish (added yesterday to try to help with the algae). I inherited a long spined urchin too from a friend. I also only use RO water for my tank.

All my cycling levels have been at 0 for 2 weeks now, but my pH is on the lower side of 7.8 to 8.0, which use to be 8.2 to 8.4 before the alae overgrowth. I added algone to see if that would help, but I'm not sure. I also did a 20% water change two days ago, which seemed to help the most, but the algae is so bad, even on the rocks, that I have to go in daily to release the trapped airbubbles. Any suggestions on the algae problem would be appreciated as well.

I have some button polyps that came out of my rock along with 2 featherdusters and some type of worm that casts out a web to catch food and all are doing well, so I think that the water quality is good, but just too much algae.

Sorry for the long post, but just joined the forum and have many, many questions.

Thanks,
Candy

 

[blind1993]

ok well is the sand cycled if so u can add it on the sand. also try to sipon out the alage and if it doesnt go away then cut down on lighting. and if it still doesnt go away u will have to brush it off intill it is gone and then keep all of ur nitrates low.

 

[kevin1000]

Before you entertain adding more substrate you should consider your stocking level. New tanks are unstable and need time to mature before adding much livestock .. your tanks almost fully stocked an its a week or so out of cycle. No offence intended "go slow" is a phrase that is used alot in this hobby and those who "go fast" end up with major problems.

I would defer messing with the substrate ... your tanks unstable as is and with all the new fish you don't need to add further stress.

 

[blind1993]

yea dont even have as many fishes as u and my tank is 6 months old.

 

[Reefergeorge]

Before you entertain adding more substrate you should consider your stocking level. New tanks are unstable and need time to mature before adding much livestock .. your tanks almost fully stocked an its a week or so out of cycle. No offence intended "go slow" is a phrase that is used alot in this hobby and those who "go fast" end up with major problems.

I would defer messing with the substrate ... your tanks unstable as is and with all the new fish you don't need to add further stress.

Agree. I would hold off on more sand for a while and watch your levels very closely for spikes.

 

[Damsel13]

Hi LTRN!!!!!!

Welcome to Reef Frontiers

 

[blind1993]

yea wait at least 6 months.

 

[LTRN]

Wow, fully stocked? I didn't think that I was even close to being fully stocked. I know that for the first 6 months or so that it is (from what I've read) 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons, then after that, it is safe for 1 inch of fish per 2 gallons. I know that I am at my limit for the time being according to the calculation, but I figured in the future I would be able to add more, if wanted. The huge tank looks so bare, just a bunch of rock with a few fishes. I've seen so many pictures of other tanks (of course established) and mine looks like a rocky desert.

I eventually want to add corals, but know that is months down the road so not even thinking about them right now.

I test my water at least 3 times/week, and haven't had a spike since the initial one. I figured I would have more since adding fish, but haven't seen one yet. The algae problem has me bothered though. Could it be because of poor water quality, am I overfeeding the fish, and suggestions? I figured if I had overpopulated the tank that my levels would have risen, but that isn't the case, at least yet.

How long can a bag of live sand sit before it goes bad, or does it?

Thank you all for your responses, as I said in my first post I am new to this and have many questions. I have done a lot of research and read many books about the hobby, but talking to you guys is what's going to make or break me (and the fish) when things arise that books can't answer.

 

[krisfal]

I do not know if you can really state a definitive formula of inches of fish per gallon to find the correct bio load for a tank. However you need to keep in mind the size the fish will eventually be, not its current size. According to my book the adult size of the fish you have are: a yellow watchman 2.8 inches, a lawnmower blenny 5.1 inches, 6 damsels (helped speed up the cylcling) 6 times 3.5 inches = 21 inches, an arceye hawkfish 5.5 inches, a sailfin tang 15.7 inches.

IMO the algea problem you have is pretty typical for new tanks. Your bio load and possibly over feeding (common for new reef owners) is likely helping feed the algea. Also it is not anything that cannot be fixed. Diligent care and patience will get you through this problem and many others you might encouter. You have chosen well coming here for advice there are many knowledgeable people who care enough to help.

What type of test kit are you using? Some test kits are more reliable than others. The first one I got was not good, showing my parameters were good with ph a little low, but the tank was saying something different (lots of algea). I finally bought Salifert NO3 and PH kits (a brand highly recomended here) and found my nitrates were at almost 50 and my PH was good.

 

[Frankie]

I see the suggestion here is not to add anything for the time being and i have to agree. But when you are ready to add the sand i found the best way last week. I took my python gravel cleaner tube (that i never use), rinsed the sand well, then drained all the water. Now i had wet compact sand that i jambed the clear tube into over and over until it was full. I lowered it to the bottom and gently shook it until the sand started to come out. I kept it very close to the sand bed and filled it the areas i wanted the sand to be. It was a spotless job.
I personally don't agree with the live sand idea. If it has living microorganisms in it, i would think they die off from lack of oxygen in a short period of time. The water in the bag is probably high in nitrates. I would just use dry sand. It will get seeded from the current sand and live rock. Good luck with the tank.

 

[seahawkone]

I've keep a reef for 12 years now.Have a closed system 120 gal. You have the algae now so go slow getting rid of it.Brush it off rocks remove around corals fetherdusters tubeworms ect.The algae is holding your nitrates down right now.Take 7/10 days remove algae from the sand complety one section at a time.If your lights will support it think clam if not go for scallops shellfish eat nitrates among other things you don't want in your tank.Just a suggestion. GOOD LUCK

 

[Frankie]

I never heard of using shell fish for filtration so much in one day! lol It is interesting but for the beginner i have to suggest water changes.
Here is what chris&barb had to say about this method:

just to reiterate what Don said about using "cleaner clams" for nitrate control. these clams (cleaners) don't uptake N&P (nitrogen & phosphorus) the same way photosynthetic clams do. photosynthetic clams(tridacnids) can extract raw/dissolved N&P right out of the water to pass onto there zoox. cleaner clams rely on particulate matter for there main source of N&P. the only reduction of N&P you will realize from cleaner clams is from them removing the particulate matter before it has a chance to break down into its dissolved form.

there are far more draw backs to using this method for nutrient control then benefits.

1. in order for it to be effective you need a large biomass of clams.(lots of them)

2.these cleaners solely rely on particulate matter. to keep them alive you will need to ADD particulate matter. (counterproductive)

3. most of these cleaners spawn regularly. quickly and easily fouling an enclosed system.

4. they tend to burrow into the substrate, so when they eventually die you dont know, and they just lay there and rot.

 

[kevin1000]

Your focus should not be at how many fish your tank can eventually hold (and your close to the limit) but on the basic mechanics of tank maturation. As a general rule your tank need to stabilize over a long period of time and most would argue that after your tank has cycled you should only add one or two fish per month.

Theres a great article on tank maturation .. I think by Borneman .. but my old brain can't seem to bring up the link .. perhaps others can help. In short .. it talks about the benefits on letting your tank slowly mature which has long term benefit.

As previously stated .. no offense intended on my comments and you haven't done anything I didn't do 30 yrs ago.

Good luck.

 

[LTRN]

Kevin,

Seriously, I take absolutely no offense to your comments. I am here to learn, not take offense. I really appreciate the comments.

I've tried to remove it from the sand, but it reappears the next day. I have lost two red legs and two turbo snails in the past few days, but everything else seems to be okay. Is this common to see some of the small crabs and turbos die? What is their life expectancy? Is my black and green algae killing them?

The water clarity is getting better, but the algae on the bottom is not. The tang and rabbitfish are eating it off of the rocks, which is a huge improvement!

As far as my readings, the fish store has tested my water as well and is comprable to what I get. My pH came up yesterday to "normal" and everhting else is zero.

When I get home I will look to see what brand test kits I use, some are different than others. Phosphates are always the hardest to read!

Thanks again for all your help, it is making more sense. I think.......

 

[MAGDRL Mom]

refugium would help - I run an HOB refugium on my 55gal softies. Mangroves are your friend!

 

[Frankie]

When you have an algae caused from nitrates your nitrates will appear low because it is feeding off the nitrates. Once removed you will notice a spike in nitrates. Also you can get the test water late after lights out when the algae is not working so hard and you will see the nitrate level changes also. Hope this helps you.

 

[kevin1000]

New tanks generally through through a number of algae stages .. in part because the tanks are unstable and haven't developed the micro orgnanisms that mature thanks have. Most tanks go through a "diatom bloom" .. usually a brown algae that covers the substrate and live rock (easily consumed by snails) and often followed by a cyano bloom which is a bacterial based algage (often red but can be green, black etc) which your std clean up critters will ignore.

If you use the search feature I am sure that you will see lots of posts on diatom and cyano ... in almost all cases this isn't something to be concerned with and will pass with time.

 

[blind1993]

yep my tank is almost done with the green cyano bloom and then u should have a mature tank. cyano blooms occur from mont 3-9. i am at 6. all u have to do is wait it out.

 

[Reefergeorge]

yep my tank is almost done with the green cyano bloom and then u should have a mature tank. cyano blooms occur from mont 3-9. i am at 6. all u have to do is wait it out.

Thanks guys, I have been having it out with red cyano myself on parts of my sand.
My tank is 5 mths old so I guess I'll wait it out and see. Thanks again

 

[blind1993]

wow we are at the same positon my just lost some of it since i got a bloom of coraline on everything so it is gettig bettter.