Alternatives to Protein Skimmers
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Water Changes...big ones and lots of them.
That about sums it up.
IMO you can't add any bottled chemical that will remove the unwanted chemicals and waste products of a closed fish system. Even if you render all of the nasties inert, theyre going to build up somewhere.
Krish
RF STAFF
I agree...Lots of water changes, good husbandry and not over stocking or over feeding. Refugiums can help a lot as well granted it is set up properly and maintained properly. There are many reefers with successful aquariums not running a skimmer although I say, why not use one if you can (ie skimmer ) 
busdriver
Well-known member
i don't use a skimmer. i don't have tons of fish in my tank. i use a 'fuge.
i think a skimmer is just one more thing to go wrong (too many bubbles will makes some overflow and you get sw and the floor) and they cost $$ (and i'd rather have more coral.) i also think they can take out too much good stuff. (ask them what happens when they put trace elements in their tanks)
carbon and rowaphos have a part in it keeping a tank nice, but for most tanks they shouldn't be used all of the time.
that being said most people run skimmers. people kept SW fish alive before skimmers existed...
i think a skimmer is just one more thing to go wrong (too many bubbles will makes some overflow and you get sw and the floor) and they cost $$ (and i'd rather have more coral.) i also think they can take out too much good stuff. (ask them what happens when they put trace elements in their tanks)
carbon and rowaphos have a part in it keeping a tank nice, but for most tanks they shouldn't be used all of the time.
that being said most people run skimmers. people kept SW fish alive before skimmers existed...
ahh but how successful were they with corals? SW Fish don't need the skimming, corals do.
Granted, Reef tanks can be kept without skimmers. It just requires more work.
As far as trace elements, and what happens to them, with or without a skimmer...shouldn't matter, as those trace elements are not proteins. Proteins are removed by skimming, not elements.
Katchupoy
Well-known member
lots of water changes. and make sure you do a lots of surface agitation, to keep up with high oxygen level on your water. surface to water contact is what we are talking about. lots of people point their powerheads to the surface of the water.
busdriver
Well-known member
some elements are surfactants, and get can skimmed. I've heared of it a couple of times. Once i thought was at a SRS meeting. 90 gal on 24th if i remember right. someone there did the recommend dosage of it. x # of sprays of the trace elements, and their skimmer went "nuts" so know they do .5 as much a little more often. (or something close to that)
i'm pretty sure yer right about the fish/coral thing. it is also hard to tell from poor lights and shipping wasn't as easy back then... but don't most people w/ FOWLR tanks have skimmers?
again, i'm not say'n skimmers are evil, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, but it is HIGHLY inadvisable to start at the tail...
nah, skimming must be good. b/c everyone does it. (sorry i'm type'n more, i'm avoiding my homework, hehe)
i'm pretty sure yer right about the fish/coral thing. it is also hard to tell from poor lights and shipping wasn't as easy back then... but don't most people w/ FOWLR tanks have skimmers?
again, i'm not say'n skimmers are evil, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, but it is HIGHLY inadvisable to start at the tail...
nah, skimming must be good. b/c everyone does it. (sorry i'm type'n more, i'm avoiding my homework, hehe)
FreakinReefin
Insert idiot comment
Is there any reason why you would not want to have a skimmer? Space? Money? I can tell you that comparing the good and evil of skimming...the good FAAAARRRR out weighs the evil. You can buy mud and additives to help band-aid the system over and over again, but really if you just make that original purchase for the skimmer you will be much happier and successful at this hobby/addiction. Most skimmers are not too hard to use and if you need any help setting them up(if that is what is deterring you from getting one) I'd be more than happy to help you...via pictures, since I just realized you are in Florida...
Skimmy
SKIM FU
and
Skimmy
SKIM FU
oh, and I alzo haves to say:
...nuff said
...nuff said
That's not an alternative to skimmer, that's "in addition to" skimming.....lol
tcblightning
Active member
IMO you have to skim, it is the closest we can get to the natural process of the sea...and since we are trying to replicate the sea it goes without saying... How much skimming?...well I am not at all qualified to say. Probably the less the better. On that note, I skim my tank 24/7...and have a refuge. My thinking is that skimming removes protiens but there is definitely some 'colateral damage' and removes elements as well. The s. gravity of your skimmed liquid is the same as your tank water (check it out)...so if your skimming salt your skimming elements! I saw this on another forum and it caught my attention: http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=330606 ...I have not tried this and I obviously DO NOT believe it replaces skimming, but if you decide to not skim I think this is a wise addon...and its as cheap as you can make it.
Oh wow, that guy's posts are still active somewhere? He ended up getting banned from just about every forum that exists, because of his argumentative nature, when confronted with some downfalls to his system...lol.
Not that it's a bad system, but it does have it's negatives and does NOT "replace" all the things he claims that it replaces.
Not that it's a bad system, but it does have it's negatives and does NOT "replace" all the things he claims that it replaces.
tcblightning
Active member
Seriously though returnofsid, I thought it was a sales pitch when I started reading but I skipped ahead a few pages and saw some results...then a few pages later and I saw 'scienific' results from another post...People on that forum went nuts with it! there are like 50 designs! The ONLY reason I might try it is to reduce nitrite...its been at 20 forever...nothing is working! I just started a refuge so I will give it a few weeks but...That's great...kicked off the internet...I hope nobody takes me that serious...if I get that worked up Im fairly sure I could just stop posting!
Scooterman
Well-known member
That isn't scientific at all, too many variables overlooked.
Fact is you can do what you want any way you want & still be successful, you just have to accommodate the needs of your livestock. I've had & seen beautiful Reef tanks many years old with no skimmer ever. That said, skimming has many benefits that can be difficult to do other ways to accomplish the same goal, in the long run it will be cheaper.
Fact is you can do what you want any way you want & still be successful, you just have to accommodate the needs of your livestock. I've had & seen beautiful Reef tanks many years old with no skimmer ever. That said, skimming has many benefits that can be difficult to do other ways to accomplish the same goal, in the long run it will be cheaper.
Ed Hahn
Life is A Highway...
Skimmy,
I love your babes with Skimmers!!! You should have a calender with those for each Month. I would buy it!
Years ago we just used good old natural bacterial acclimated by balanced nutrient export.
The use of plants to regulate Carbon dioxide, with water motion, salt water mixed as designed with gas exchange. Skimming has reduced the easy accessed amonia to a null. Reduced the chance of organics or toxins from Fish, invertebrates contaminating aquarium systems. The short of it. Protein skimmers keep our aquarium systems in check with less work.
If you want to learn about systems or Coral propogators that do not use skimming. I suggest you look up Steve Tyree. He uses sea squirts, sponges, etc for natural filtration. If you were closer to me I would lend you his book.
I love your babes with Skimmers!!! You should have a calender with those for each Month. I would buy it!
Years ago we just used good old natural bacterial acclimated by balanced nutrient export.
The use of plants to regulate Carbon dioxide, with water motion, salt water mixed as designed with gas exchange. Skimming has reduced the easy accessed amonia to a null. Reduced the chance of organics or toxins from Fish, invertebrates contaminating aquarium systems. The short of it. Protein skimmers keep our aquarium systems in check with less work.
If you want to learn about systems or Coral propogators that do not use skimming. I suggest you look up Steve Tyree. He uses sea squirts, sponges, etc for natural filtration. If you were closer to me I would lend you his book.
Boomer
Well-known member
Alternative to skimming that is easy, GAC, as no skimmer made can out compete GAC. Skimmer also do NOT remove as mush as one things. It has also more or less been proven that cheap air stone skimmers out compete so fancy expensive skimmer. If any of you where at MACNA you would have seen this from Dr. Ken Fledman's talk, a professor of Organic Chemistry at Penn State, who is an avid reefer and who has been testing all kinds of skimmers for the last 2 years and GAC. The Bubble King was the worst skimmer there was when coming to removing organics, like DOC. The best skimmer was an air stone operated, discontinued, skimmer from Precision Aquatics. 75 % of the stuff in most skimmer cups is not even organic but inorganic, like salt, and parts of diatoms, foram's and cocco's. The darkness of the stuff or how much you see is a meaningless and usually a errored observation and/or marketing hype,which was we always suspected. ROX at 1/3 cup / 50 gal kept, with skimmer keeps all DOC to less than 1 ppm. You up that ROX to 1/2 to 1 cup / 50 gal with just ROX and no skimmer can compete and is not really needed IMHO. However, skimmers do have a good function such as aeration and removing some of those small particulates. So, I not saying dump the skimmer, just that they are not what they are all hyped up to be. In the past we just all assumed so.
The there are Skimmerless tanks, that is nothing new, where large reugiums are used. And then there are those "lots of WC" systems.
Ed
Those pics are from Chingchai Uekrongtham new system. His tank and others will be in a new book I'm helping and working on written by Tony Vargas and published by Julian Sprung, which will be out next year. "The Coral Reef Aquarium"
You can see Chin's system being put up here.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1640915
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1440642
The there are Skimmerless tanks, that is nothing new, where large reugiums are used. And then there are those "lots of WC" systems.
Ed
Those pics are from Chingchai Uekrongtham new system. His tank and others will be in a new book I'm helping and working on written by Tony Vargas and published by Julian Sprung, which will be out next year. "The Coral Reef Aquarium"
You can see Chin's system being put up here.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1640915
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1440642
Ed Hahn
Life is A Highway...
Wow, Awesome article and write up. Thx Boomer!
