anemone wont grow!!!!

[dj tryrd]

i have an anemone that was once big but is now small. 'bout 8 months ago i had a little problem with water quality, and my anemone dwindled down from its beautiful 6 in. bulbous tentacles stradaling a 10 in in diameter disc (just estimates) to a dollar coin size disk with a varying stalk (1/2 in. to 4 in) and less than a centimeter tentacles with little color and no bulbs.

now 8 months later the anemone is still in bad shape, and my water quality is perfect. i run a protein skimmer, refugium, multiple other filters, 150 watt hqi metal halide lighting, at the moment i just dont know what to do.

the only thought i have is could this all be because i am running an old bulb?
the bulb is about a year old and i am going to change it as soon as the LOCAL FISH STORE (three small words, and your to lazy to spell them, lol) gets them in. as i said i am at my wits end.

help.

 

[warforged]

I was reading about care for a bleached anenome. I bet yours will need the same.

Does it still eat what you place in its mouth? Or have you even tried?

Try feeding it some Krill and when he feels better try Silver Sides. If it will take food, just keep it stuffed...every 4-7 days feed it.

 

[stalefish]

You know I had something similar with mine, although the little white nubbins stage didn't last quite as long as yours. I'm not 100% sure what the deal was, but one possible culprit in my tank was my cleaner shrimp. I caught him blatantly strolling into the anenome and stealing a whole silver side from him.

What I ended up doing was feeding the anenome just the head of a silverside (all he could handle) and then keeping my feeding tong in the tank to a) re-place the food when it slipped off his short nubbins and b) chase the shrimp away. Often he didnt' want to eat and I'd try again in a day or two. In his depleted state, it took him a while to eat and so defending him from the shrimp became a very big pain, so I ended up moving the anenome to a small shrimpless aquapod tank for a couple of months where it was easier to feed him.

The good news is that although it took a while, he's bounced back in spades. I now have two beautiful anenomes back in my display. They eat much quicker now, so the shrimp doesn't have much chance to steal.

Good luck.

-Don

 

[dj tryrd]

i thought that it was bad to force feed an anemone?

do you just stick it infront of his mouth?

 

[warforged]

Just place the food in the center and let him wrap around it... just hold it in place till it decides to engulf it. If it does not wrap around it and pull it in its mouth, just take the food out and try again another day.

 

[Maxx]

i have an anemone that was once big but is now small. 'bout 8 months ago i had a little problem with water quality, and my anemone dwindled down from its beautiful 6 in. bulbous tentacles stradaling a 10 in in diameter disc (just estimates) to a dollar coin size disk with a varying stalk (1/2 in. to 4 in) and less than a centimeter tentacles with little color and no bulbs.

now 8 months later the anemone is still in bad shape, and my water quality is perfect. i run a protein skimmer, refugium, multiple other filters, 150 watt hqi metal halide lighting, at the moment i just dont know what to do.

the only thought i have is could this all be because i am running an old bulb?
the bulb is about a year old and i am going to change it as soon as the LOCAL FISH STORE (three small words, and your to lazy to spell them, lol) gets them in. as i said i am at my wits end.

help.

First things first.....What type of anemone is this?
When you say you had a little problem with water quality what do you mean...specifically?

When you say your water quality is perfect, what are your parameters? Also note the time of day you are testing. Is your fuge on same or opposite lighting schedule?

You need to post a picture of the anemone so we can see what you're working with.

The bulb shouldnt be the cause, it sounds like there is something else causing this issue?

i thought that it was bad to force feed an anemone?

do you just stick it infront of his mouth?

It is bad to force feed an anemone. It stresses them out and causes more problems.

Just place the food in the center and let him wrap around it... just hold it in place till it decides to engulf it. If it does not wrap around it and pull it in its mouth, just take the food out and try again another day.

This is not force feeding, this is fine.

Nick

 

[dj tryrd]

thanks nick, by bad i mean that my salinity was realy low because the fish place had made the wrong mixture (or something) alll i know is after my water change my salt levels were 19ppm

now everything is as it should be.

nitrite less than ten

nitrate closer to 0 than 1

ph 8.2 'bout 4 hours after the lights are off

8.1 when the lights are off for 8 hours.

alkalinity is at the 1260, i think. i know that it is the right place for it.

calcium is at 460

i ad iron, a multipurpose chemical, and i will start adding coral food soon.


it is a rose bubble tip anemone

refugium runs 24-6 and on sundays i give it 4 hours off.

dont worry i have chaeto so it stays in stasis.

i cant post a picture, but imagin a stuck out thumb..........and you prettymuch have it.

 

[Maxx]

thanks nick, by bad i mean that my salinity was realy low because the fish place had made the wrong mixture (or something) alll i know is after my water change my salt levels were 19ppm

now everything is as it should be.

nitrite less than ten

nitrate closer to 0 than 1

ph 8.2 'bout 4 hours after the lights are off

8.1 when the lights are off for 8 hours.

alkalinity is at the 1260, i think. i know that it is the right place for it.

calcium is at 460

i ad iron, a multipurpose chemical, and i will start adding coral food soon.


it is a rose bubble tip anemone

refugium runs 24-6 and on sundays i give it 4 hours off.

dont worry i have chaeto so it stays in stasis.

i cant post a picture, but imagin a stuck out thumb..........and you prettymuch have it.

Okay.....
Salinity that low isnt good long term, but isnt fatal short term. It causes issues with osmo-regulation within inverts. If this happened 8 months ago, and it didnt die, then that is not the issue. As a side note, you should test your make up/water change water everytime before you use it...especially, if you're not the one making it. As another side note, always find out what salt you buying, and DONT DEVIATE FROM IT!

Nitrite is less than 10.....what is it specifically? You should have it at zero.
Nitrate is okay.
pH is fine.
"alkalinity is at the 1260, i think. i know that it is the right place for it." Actually, Alk is measured in one of two ways, meq/l on a 5.0 scale w/ ideal being between 2.5 and 4, or in Dkh, (german for Degrees of Karbonate Hardness), which happens to be easier for me to follow, and ideal is between 8 and 11. I have no idea where you're getting 1260 from...Magnesium maybe?
Calcium at 460 is a bit high, but w/o knowing what exactly you're alk is, its tough to say if its in line w/ alk. If the 1260 is your magnesium, its out of line.
"i ad iron, a multipurpose chemical, and i will start adding coral food soon."
Dont add ANYTHING to your tank you cannot test for.

"refugium runs 24-6 and on sundays i give it 4 hours off.'
Why would you give it "time off"? The goal is to make the system as stable as possible and having a change in your fuge lighting will cause a deviation in parameters. Someone, (forget who) has a signature that reads "SPS- Stability Promotes Sucess". This is so true its not even funny.

Reef Aquarium Water Parameters by Randy Holmes-Farley

You should read up on this....its not exactly a wickedly exciting read (to me anyway...sorry Randy!), but chemistry is very important in this hobby. If you dont know where you're supposed to be, or how to get there, you're going to fail spectacularly at this hobby, and the worst part is that you wont even know why.

What test kits are being used to check your water? I would suggest sticking with either Salifert or Elos kits. There are many others, but these seem to be the most reliable of the inexpensive kits. Hach makes some good ones but their spendy. The Elos and Salifert are accurate and fairly easy to use. The vast majority of the other test kits are not accurate enough to be useful for keeping inverts.

Having thrown all of this at you....I'm not trying to bash you or overwhelm you, and I hope I havent come off this way.

Anemones are difficult to keep to begin with. BTA s also have a habit of splitting under stress as a means of keeping some part of them alive. I'm wondering if you are having an alk swing which could very well cause issues with your anemone.

Nick

 

[returnofsid]

I agree that you shouldn't be adding anything that you aren't testing for. I think the Alk measurement you're getting is because you're using one of those all in one test kits that test Alk in a way other than Mq/l or dkH. I'd get yourself some individual test kits that are a bit more expensive but much more accurate. Salifert or Elos.

 

[dj tryrd]

actualy i dont test it the fish store does. i think i got the nitrite and the nitrate mixed up.

the one that should be less than 10 is less than ten.

the one that should be zero is zero.

the alkalinity im alittle confused with i have the sheat infront of me and it says 1260, but on the sheat it says good is inbetween 1190 and 1450 so i am as confused as you are.

i am getting my own temporary testing supplies this sunday, and i will slowly be getting the digital ones.



i tried to feed it yesterday, wouldn't have anything to do with it.

today it ate a little. it would have eaten more but the male clown kept stealing it.



my metal halide keeps trying to start fires when i start it so i am using a 40 watt comp flourescent, a 24 watt flourescent, a 20 watt flourescent, and 2 15 watt incandescents that i getto riged for my brachish water mudskipper tank.

 

[dj tryrd]

oh and as for the my parameters , they have remained consistant (including alk) since the salt incident

 

[dj tryrd]

when i said iron i meant iodine.

i am sorry for all the mistakes in spelling and word choice, i am incredably tired studying for a big test

 

[returnofsid]

Why are you dosing Iodine? Unless you know the effects, beneficial or negative, you shouldn't be dosing anything at all. And anything you dose, you should be testing for.

Nitrates and Nitrites should both be Zero...not below 10....Zero.

You need to get an alk test kit that tests in mq/l and dkH.

Not sure what you mean by getting temporary test supplies. You should have permanent test supplies and there lots of things that you can't test for using anything digital.

Explain your lighting again please. Am I to understand that you aren't using MH lighting at the moment, but a variety of PC bulbs? This could be your problem.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Hard to tell what the store is selling you as saltwater especially if you don't own good test kits...

Buy some instant ocean salt and mix it per instructions and let it sit at least overnight. Running a pump or air stone it would help.

Do a large water change with YOUR water and see how things develop.
My bet, things will improve mysteriously

 

[Maxx]

DJ,
No worries on the misspelled words, happens to all of us.

Who makes the alk test kit you're using right now?

Call the fish store and find out what test kits they're using and what brand of salt they are using.

Nick

 

[dj tryrd]

i will call in the morning.

i am dosing iodine because it is beneficial in the corals and algeas growth, however because i believe (just like tooth paste companies) the iodine company is trying to make money at the expense of the aquarist i add 1/10the of the directed dose and in increments were i add a little of that number to my tank once a day.

as for the nitriti/ate one of those is good to have above zero because plants, algas and coral species (like my xenia for instance which uses them to help their sybiotic zoozanthelae aka dinoflagellete to grow) need them. with out any of the substance much of the life in our tanks would be hard (if noy impossible) to keep.

now i will meet you in the middle and say that it should be well lower than 10 (probably around the 1-3 range, and that in the ocean it is probably lower, but if it spikes to ten every once in a while it isn't as bad a thing as many suspect.

the ocean commonly experiences fluxuations in water quality and clarity, reefs however, are much less subject to those changes. still many tests have proved that many corals not only can survive in higher than normal nitri/ate levels, but will thrive in higher than normal nitra/ite levels.

and, to answer your next question, my refugium, sponge fuge,protien skimmer, use of underwater filters as substitute for protien skimmers, carbon filtration,spongefilters, use of only reverse osmosis deionived water, and regular additions of good additives that acurately portray the natural environment of corals (checked the labels myself), all help to keep my nitri/ates in the 1-3 zone.

and as abonus piece of information, water that truly has 0 nitri/ate levels is known as reverse osmosis deionized, and the very fact that plankton exhist (which is proven by the ph fluctuations that occur from night and day), and dies proves thatyou do indeed have nitri/ate, even if it is too low to be measured by your supply.


by nitri/ate i mean either nitrite or nitrate, not both,


thank you

 

[Maxx]

i will call in the morning.

i am dosing iodine because it is beneficial in the corals and algeas growth, however because i believe (just like tooth paste companies) the iodine company is trying to make money at the expense of the aquarist i add 1/10the of the directed dose and in increments were i add a little of that number to my tank once a day.

If you dont have a test kit or another means of testing the level of iodine in your tank water, you dont know where you're starting off at. So adding any other iodine to your tank could be raising it to unhealthy levels and you wont know until you start having problems. I would suggest that you either stop dosing iodine or get a test kit for it.

as for the nitriti/ate one of those is good to have above zero because plants, algas and coral species (like my xenia for instance which uses them to help their sybiotic zoozanthelae aka dinoflagellete to grow) need them. with out any of the substance much of the life in our tanks would be hard (if noy impossible) to keep.

There is a difference between nitrate and nitrite. Nitrate is used as a fertilizer by plants and algaes. However, at reletively low levels it inhibits calcification in corals and clams. Excess nitrate is food for other algaes which will then begin to grow. Algaes are also known to out compete corals, both soft and hard for nutrient, light, and space. some algaes can be toxic to corals as well....

now i will meet you in the middle and say that it should be well lower than 10 (probably around the 1-3 range, and that in the ocean it is probably lower, but if it spikes to ten every once in a while it isn't as bad a thing as many suspect.

the ocean commonly experiences fluxuations in water quality and clarity, reefs however, are much less subject to those changes. still many tests have proved that many corals not only can survive in higher than normal nitri/ate levels, but will thrive in higher than normal nitra/ite levels.

Yes, corals can and do survive fluctuations in water chemistry in the wild. However, very, very few captive systems can be even remotely compared to the ocean in terms of growth, behavior and overall health of the systems inhabitants. If someting is healthy, its going to be better able to deal occassional, brief fluctations in water chemistry/conditions. Howver, in this case, we're talking about an anemone, which is not a coral. Its more delicate in many respects, and obviously, yours isnt happy right now.

and, to answer your next question, my refugium, sponge fuge,protien skimmer, use of underwater filters as substitute for protien skimmers, carbon filtration,spongefilters, use of only reverse osmosis deionived water, and regular additions of good additives that acurately portray the natural environment of corals (checked the labels myself), all help to keep my nitri/ates in the 1-3 zone.

and as abonus piece of information, water that truly has 0 nitri/ate levels is known as reverse osmosis deionized, and the very fact that plankton exhist (which is proven by the ph fluctuations that occur from night and day), and dies proves thatyou do indeed have nitri/ate, even if it is too low to be measured by your supply.


by nitri/ate i mean either nitrite or nitrate, not both,


thank you

Not arguing that levels of nitrate are present in our tanks, we do want some low levels in our system....but the levels you have. Did you read the link I posted earlier about water chemistry parameters? The target number for nitrate in a captive system is 0.02....

Heres the major issues you have right now:

1...something is stressing out your anemone

2...you dont have the most accurate numbers for your tanks water chemistry so we cant really help you as much as we'd like to.

3...you dont know what salt mix, (if one is used at all), your lfs is using, and you already had one issue with water you got from them. It is well documented that changes in salt mixes have caused major issues with well established tanks, causing massive fatalities in their coral populations. Do you know how often your lfs is changing their RO/Di filters? Have you asked them to test there water for TDS?

I'm not slamming your lfs, I've just seen too many mistakes happen due to well meaning but under informed stores.

Nick

 

[dj tryrd]

i do know what salt mix my lfs used.....non.

recenly i moved and the new guy uses instant ocean.(or so he says)

my old lfs was and is a great lfs owner.....the best, in my opinion, if you were bashing him i would care, as for my new lfs who insists on using the dip sticks which is why i dont have 100% acurate redings like i did (my new test kit comes in today and i am slowly putting away to get the digital ones so my field work will be even more accurate.) (doing a study on the affects of algeas on nutrient rich waste water, and other poluted environments) as for the new lfs guy i dont realy care if you bash him....i do it all the time.

nitrate is what i was talking about and i still believe that it should be tracable for this reason.

i have read up on mulitple studies from sources i trust that have all had similar results.

when 1ppm nitrate is added to normal sea water (about .1ppm) the zoozanthellea growth in corals increases by 50%.

other studies did say that high levels (40 + ppm for example) are toxic for corals.

that does not mean i endorse 39 ppm, it just means that i believe that a little (1-3) isn't bad and may be beneficial.

i gather all my informations from what i read and i always look for good sources before i even bother, but maybe what i am reading is wrong, trust me it has happened many times before. i am always looking for the next best article or study that makes me rethink the way i take care of my inhabitants.

as for the iodine back when i had my bnetter lfs i did get it tested, wen my kit comes in i will be able to test again.

when i test i will post up on this in a new quick response.

algeas are known to compete with corals, but that is why we prune said algas. i had multiple specimens of caulerpa in my tank at one point. ( gave most away to a buddy)
and it was amazing. when ever it became a sexual and started dieing off i pinched it away and threw it in the lagoon out back. ( i live in florida and the caulerpas were natives, taxifolia, mexicana, etc.)


the tds of the water is 15 ppm or ppb or ppt i forget how it is measured i just know that it is realy low. and that is not just from the lfs it is from reasearch i have done.



the problem with this is that i cant remember well, and therifore have a hard time articulating what i mean.

 

[dj tryrd]

back to the anemone i cant figure out what is stressing him out?

their are no bristle worms i can see.

their is nothing eating him (and i assume he would move if that were the case)

it is like he has just given up.

i tried to feed him again but no dice.

 

[btuck]

Are you still trying to feed it large items such as silverside heads? If so it's probably too large for a dying anemone to ingest.

I feed my anemones a mixture of ocean fish, shrimp, and scallops. I just mix all of these up in a blender until a nice fine paste. Mix with a little aquarium water then spot feed. If that is still too large I also use cyclo-peeze, DT's oyster eggs or Prawn Roe. This is probably a better option for your anemone until it recovers a bit.

I feed mine 3 or 4 times a week and they grow like crazy.