Another ATO (sumpless)

[DonW]

I'm doing this one for my life long friend that has freshwater planted aquariums. There are two tanks but no sump. The tanks are connected together, so one tank flows into the other. This will work fine on sumpless reefs also.

What we know:
The water level is 1" from the top on both tanks when full.
There is a large amount of surface agitation due to the way they overflow.
Water level can not fall more than 1" or it effects the over flow.
Madison ms8000 float switch activates at 3/4" of fresh water 5/8 for SW.
The ato pump will flood the tanks in 14 minutes after the water level is at its intended level.
With the level being so high we cant use a back-up float switch.
There is only 1/16" hysteris in the Madison ms 8000 float switch.

The is usually (not in this case) a challenge and requires some expensive electronics to be safe. I think part of the reason we dont see alot of sumpless ato systems.

Parts:
1 Plastic box
1 Madison ms8000 float switch
1 Reef Werks universal Module
1 12vdc wall transformer aka wallwart
Msc crimp connectors

In this case the ato pump is a tunze osmosilator low voltage pump.

First step is the Universal module. We know the hysteris is way to small so we need to add hysteris. We know that the pump should not be allowed to top off for more than 14 minutes.
The module is programmed when when ordered and is flashed into the memory so it stays there until it gets flashed again.

Add 30 minute delay after float switch activates this will give a little extra time for the level to stabilize and wont hammer the pump on and off.
Add 14 minute failsafe so that the ato pump cant flood the tank if the float were to fail.
We'll throw in a 2 hour period that the system cant do anything after the fail safe. This is just in case and sound good to me.

More Later
Don

 

[scytale]

Don--

(I understand very little of the engineer-ese in your post ) BUT If you ever decide to BETA test this ATO module for sumpless tanks, I want to be first in line!

Great :idea:s

 

[DonW]

Don--

(I understand very little of the engineer-ese in your post ) BUT If you ever decide to BETA test this ATO module for sumpless tanks, I want to be first in line!

Great :idea:s

Your supposed to be able to build your own.

Don

 

[scytale]

(I can DIY, but not where electrons are involved)

"If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings..."
If I were meant to build my own electronics, I'd have a soldering gun for a pinky finger...or a GFCI in my sternum!

 

[DonW]

After talking to my buddy were going to add some more features before we assemble this one. A manual fill mode sounds cool. Were just going to add a manual mode that will allow the tank to be topped off manually. We want this to shut down just in case you trip the manual and forget to turn it back off. So after the 14 minutes it will just turn off.
We'll add a second float switch that will go in the holding tank so that the system wont run dry the ato pump.

That will leave us with:
14 minute fail safe
30 minute delay
Tank level switch
Holding tank failsafe
Manual mode
All low voltage

Thats about all the features I can think to add for a sumpless design. Unless someone can come up with more I'll be happy to see if I can fit them in.

Don


The only additional parts will be a float switch and a switch probably a toggle.

 

[DonW]

I'll start by giving a opinion and some may feel differently. The Universal module uses screw terminals so this project will use all crimp style connections. Its my opinion as a mechanic of more than 25 years that insulated crimp terminals are garbage. That said un insulated terminals are a little tough to come by. Simply removing the insulation is just fine. See pictures. Notice the example I just crimped. You wont get that nice of crimp with the insulation attatched.

 

[Scooterman]

Wrong tool for the job, special crimper's are used for insulated & non-insulated ferrules, why the non insulated came out so nice. I can account for that after several hounded thousand I personally installed myself. If you want I can show you a good pic if the proper ferrule! My tool does the three most common BTW!

 

[DonW]

Wrong tool for the job, special crimper's are used for insulated & non-insulated ferrules, why the non insulated came out so nice. I can account for that after several hounded thousand I personally installed myself. If you want I can show you a good pic if the proper ferrule! My tool does the three most common BTW!

Were not talking about professional tools, remember its the diy forum. I wouldnt expect anyone to have the Kent Moore anvil crimper in the picture. I think I paid $300 for it years ago and they are still well over a $100 today. I think most will have a home depot special.

Don

 

[Scooterman]

Klein Long Nose All-Purpose Tool $16 bucks

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[DonW]

Ok moving on. Mount the Universal module. You could use double sided tape but I prefer screws. There are holes already drilled in the module and there are two unused terminals so just rob the screws and lock washers out of those two terminals. Try to put it up in a corner of the box so there is room for the rest.

 

[DonW]

Next we need to drill a few wiring holes in the box. I put one in one end and two in the other. This is a diy project so put some thought into drilling the holes and how your going to mount the box. This one is going on the back of my buddies stand with the holding bucket sitting on the side. I'll drill two more later.
You can see the float switch in the photos. The one thing I dislike about the Madisons is the wires, they are not fused together so I use small pieces of heat shrink to keep them neat. The red stuff is not wire just more heatshrink. You will not need near this much.
Make sure that if you are using your wifes favorite Kershaw kitchen scissors as I am here that your done before she gets home. They are also super wire strippers.

 

[DonW]

Wiring time. The black wires are the dc power wires and the white are the upper upper / tank float switch. Try to keep everything neat as you go along. I like the hot melt glue gun for this. It really cuts down on the frustration. I will be posting the diagram in the final post so if your not understanding the wiring dont worry its very simple.

 

[TheKraken]

Looks good. I remember a build with a similar call for a ATO on a closed loop with the exception that no equipment could be visible. It turns out there is a water pressure sensor that mounts in a bulkhead and has a good performance. He was using two for automated WC on a FW planted tank so the lower one tripped to turn of the drain valve and the the top one stopped the fill valve.

All the electronics and programing from above applies. The sensor is mounted in a bulkhead.

 

[ReefLogic]

you know this thread was from 2007 right?

 

[TheKraken]

you know this thread was from 2007 right?

So how has it worked for the last 5 years???

 

[ReefLogic]

So how has it worked for the last 5 years???

ok....must admit I am curious too.....RELEASE THE KRACKEN!!!

Sorry....had to do it.