Anthias Compatability

[The Apprentice]

ingnore each other

Thanks For the tip Kevin, On the Dispar Species what is the minimum tank size for like 2-3 Ea thanks for the help..Jeff

Leopard wrasses and Anthias will ingnore each other. Dispar are one of the smallest species and one of the most hardy.

HTH,
Kevin

 

[kevinpo]

Jeff,
1 male and 3 females would be OK in a 75gal. for a minimum tank size (IMO). I would not try to keep less than that amount as the aggression among them might not be dispersed enough.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[NaH2O]

Thanks everyone for the continued contribution to the thread! I've learned alot about Anthias.

Kevin - I have a question about determining the sex of Anthias. Can it be determined based on the elongated dorsal spine? The reason I'm asking is because I was looking in Scott Michael's Reef Fishes book and some of the anthias with the elongated dorsal spine are noted to be female in photos. I would like to order the female Resplendents and put them in QT so I can be sure they are truely females before I add them to the tank. Are the ones Scott Michael says are female with the shorter elongated spine females or would they be sub males? I am afraid I'd wind up with the latter and have a real problem on my hands. Since it doesn't seem like anywhere local has Resplendent Anthias, I will probably have to get them online.....hence the concern about their sex.

 

[kevinpo]

Hi Nikki,
My wholesale supplier often sends submales as females and it can make things more difficult. The elongated first dorsal spine is an indicator that the female has begun to change into a male. It usually will not progress if there is a established supermale in the tank. Sometimes (especially with Bartletts) more than one will become a supermale. There is increased aggression with supermales and submales which can result in jumping from the tank. It is best (IMO/IME) to have a fully established supermale added before or at the same time with at least 3 females. If there are 7 or more Anthias it's not much of a problem if you have a couple of submales.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Maxx]

Kevin,
How long can anthias be kept in QT before one, (or more) of them begins to change from female to submale?

Nick

 

[middletonmark]

Hi Nikki,
The Sunburst Anthias is a deepwater fish that was once listed in the Hawkfish family. It is quite timid and prefers dimly lit aquariums to our halides. They are best kept only one per tank unless the tank is large (350+ gal).

It is possible to keep one in a high light reef tank but provide plenty of overhangs for it to hide under. Once they settle in they are quite hardy and keep to themselves.

In your case an established Sixline Wrasse posses a moderate risk of harassing the Anthias. They like Mysis, raw shrimp, freeze-dried plankton, and other meaty foods.

Well, I have this situation. My sunburst is past the 6 month mark, lots of overhangs, mellow companions.
[58g, midas blenny, green clown goby, 2 masked gobies]
I feel like the mellow companions have been part of my success with this fish - and do not want to compromise this and stress my fish to poorer health. The blenny chases him around a little, as it is.

But I'm considering one more fish - and wonder thoughts about:

royal gramma
fairy wrasse [though probably will avoid due to jumping]
chalk bass
other small fish?

Thanks for any/all advice. I've got a good thing going, and while I'd love to add another small fish to my community ... my sunburst's happiness is paramount.

 

[Maxx]

Chalk Bass are cool. Mine is the most timid thing in the tank. He's not afraid to dash in to get food, but is also one of the quickest to bolt. If you think you might want more than one, I'd suggest adding them all at once. They will find spots of their own to hang out in and you will see them constantly.

My Royal Gramma has grown larger, faster than my Chalk Bass, but the two of them get along fine. I'm a little leary of whats going to happen when I add a pair of Onyx Perc's eventually, since the Royal's main sleeping area is right near where my three RBTA's are isolated. The interesting thing is that my Royal will hang upside down under a large Lava rock I have in the tank. Thye do this in the wild, but it stills freaks people out that the fish is swimming upside down.

Have you thought of a BlackCap Basslet? They are prettier IMO, and exhibit the same personality traits of the Royal Gramma. Candy or Sulawesi Basslets are another possibility. Both are attractive, shy, peaceful fish.

Nick

 

[middletonmark]

On the fence about the gramma ... common, yet saw them diving on my honeymoon.

The other basslets, or chalk bass are great ideas.
I'll definitely have them in mind too

 

[nbd13]

Kevin-

in my new 275 gallons tank i would like to keep 5 bartletts anthias and maybe 3 Bimaculatus anthias.

anyway i have 5 fairy wrasses right now in my 180 along with some other misc fish,

1 rhomboid, 1 lineatus, 1 labouti, 1 orange back, and 1 blue sided fairy wrasse.

now my question is will fairy wrasses espically the ones i have get along with the anthias i would like?

the other fish will include a conspic angel, chevron tang, foxface lo, 2 wantabie angel (pair), 2 ocellaris clowns (pair), maybe 1 more tang... still thinking about the last tang, i might skip it, but maybe a black tang or a hippo tang.....

now this tank will be an SPS tank.

so what do you think.

if it matters the demensions will be 60" long X 44" deep X 24" high....

thanks!

Nick

 

[kevinpo]

Hi Nick,
Very few fish will bother Anthias. The Bimaculatus are quite aggressive however so be sure the Bartlett's are well established before adding the Bimaculatus. Also make sure you get a supermale and 2 smaller females of the Bimaculatus. They are so beautiful but one of the largest and most aggressive. They are easy to get eating but don't seem to school as much as the smaller anthias.
The first ones I saw belonged to Wayne Shang from the Bay area. After I saw them, I knew I had to have one even though they are quite expensive. Here is a picture of a large male I had (he was close to 6"):

Regards,
Kevin

 

[ninerfoelife]

i'm very fascinated with the fathead sunburst anthias (Serranocirrhitus latus), i was wondering if i would be able to hold ONE in my 60g reef.

 

[nbd13]

thanks Kevin!

i am not too worried about the anthias, but more so the fairy wrasses.

do you think the anthais will bother the fairy wrasses? and nice pic by the way! maybe i will just stick with my group of 5 bartletts.

Now do you perfer bartletts or lyterials? any one easier or more beautiful out of the bunch? and do these things really die that easily while reading the thread i hear of quite a few people say they lost 1 or 2 over time?

thanks again!

Nick

 

[Maxx]

i'm very fascinated with the fathead sunburst anthias (Serranocirrhitus latus), i was wondering if i would be able to hold ONE in my 60g reef.

You should be able to do so as long your putting it in with NON aggressive tankmates. Middleton Mark has one in a 58 gallon.

Nick

 

[Maxx]

Gorgeous picture Kevin!!

Nick

 

[middletonmark]

As mentioned, I've had a sunburst Anthias in my 58g reef tank for the last 6 months.

It seems healthy, has great color, and is `out' a good bit; so while my success is quite short-term yet, I guess I'll add what I can about these fish. Given experience like Kevin and others in this forum [see my question above, to the wise folks here] ... I'm sure I might be contradicted, and probably have a lot yet to learn about these fish.

Getting a Sunburst:

These are deeper water fish, and collectors often don't decompress these fish well. Swim-bladder problems are mentioned in almost every guide.
Personally, I got mine from the LFS. They had it for almost two months - swimming and eating well. I wouldn't order one of these online, I'd find one that's been at a LFS for a while, known to be healthy in captivity - and wait until that point to get one.
Otherwise, just unsure how to suggest finding a healthy one.

Tankmates:

I took the Marine Center's advice to heart [that the most aggressive fish these should be housed with is a Fairy Wrasse]. The folks around here that I've know try them never had them last very long [maybe half a year] .... and they were rarely seen in their tanks.
As my most aggressive fish is a Midas Blenny - and I feel at times like my Sunburst feels quite menaced by the MIdas ... they aren't kidding when they say to watch what fish these are housed with. I attribute the amount of mine is out, the health to the fact that I have a fairly low stocked tank with the Midas as the most aggressive tank-mate.
IMO, if you're not guiding the tank stocking around the Sunburst - another fish would be a better choice. Maybe I'm over-opinionated for being under-experienced - but that's my take on these fish and the not-great record many have in aquaria.
But IMO for a tank like ours - the sunburst can be a feature fish, with all other fish smaller/more mellow/compatible with it's needs. In 3', tangs and angels and the like IMO are easy to avoid with a star fish like this one.

Other stuff:

I feed daily, or try to. Sometimes multiple times on the weekend. While the Sunburst is pretty unusual and not tightly related to the other Anthias - but I'd still err on the `feed often, small amounts' like is said for Anthias.

Lighting. I have a number of overhands, caves, and arches that my Anthias loves. Having an `open' rockwork with lots of darker areas, passageways, etc seems to suit the Anthias well. It seems love hanging out at the edges of overhangs - ready to swim out in the water column, but not really `open water swimming'.
If your caves are hidden, if you've got fairly solid rockwork - you might not see it as much.
It also seems to make it happier with my MH lighting. It seems ok with it, but might spend more time swimming around in the water column with just actinics on - I dunno.

---

Anyway, I tend to view this fish as best kept as a `feature fish'. A 3' tank like ours might be a good choice [at least until it gets big] as avoiding tangs and other fish that might intimidate the Sunburst are easily avoided and it's not too hard to have a very passive smaller tank.
I would consider all the tank mates, though. I've been thinking for a few weeks about what fish to add to my tank - and am asking on a couple boards to insure the best success I can. These are timid fish, more timid than their size ... and seem like it would be easy to keep stressed and not eating well - a fairly quick death.

Anyway - I'm only at 6 months with mine. At a couple years I'll probably have something useful to say .... but it's definitely my favorite fish I've kept so far and IMO worth the sacrifices needed to have it thrive.

I'd love to hear others experience with Sunburst - I've got a lot left to learn [and if you can advise on my tank-mates question above, I'd love it!]

 

[kevinpo]

do you think the anthais will bother the fairy wrasses?

No the anthias pretty much stick to themselves.

You should be able to do so as long your putting it in with aggressive tankmates.

I'm sure Nick meant NON aggressive tankmates

Well said Middlemark!

The Sunburst anthias can be housed in a tank as small as a 40 breeder. They stay pretty small. They usually ship poorly and are difficult to get feeding when other fish are present. The best way is to put them in first and get them eating. They are not schooling fish and will go their own way when housed with other anthias. Other established male anthias will chase them a bit but if the Sunburst is already eating then it's not much of a problem. Sunburst/Fathead anthias are one of the most difficult to keep IMO. Also they are hard to get a good picture of. I've had mine since Oct. '03. I don't have a good enough picture to post but I will try to take one later today. finely chopped raw shrimp is a good starter food for all anthias.

Regards,
Kevin
PS: Here is another smaller anthias that is not to hard to keep. They are regularly available.

 

[kevinpo]

nbd13,
Now don't make me choose :lol: The Lyretails are larger and need a larger tank, I would say a 6' 80gal would be the smallest. Bartlett's can go in a 4' 75gal. I think the biggest problem with keeping anthias long term is nutrition. Anthias tend to become aggressive at feeding over time (to other anthias). This can result in the smallest/slowest anthias not getting enough to eat over time, causing starvation. They also can jump from the tank when chased by other anthias. Even when anthias that are fattened up and then cut back to feeding once a day, the smallest will thin over time. I have had to go back to feeding twice a day because a few (3 out of 10) have gotten too thin. No other fish that I have kept have had this problem.

HTH,
Kevin

 

[nbd13]

Thanks Kevin, maybe i will just stick with 5-7 barletts anthias and go from there since my tank is pretty large, well not compared to yours, haha!

thanks for the help!

Nick

 

[Maxx]

I'm sure Nick meant NON aggressive tankmates

Sorry Kevin! You're correct. It was early morning, and I hadnt had any coffee yet. Thats my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

The previous post was edited to fix my typo.

Nick

 

[ninerfoelife]

Thanks for the advice, i currently have a blue hippo tang (2 1/2in) and two clownfishes. I plan on getting some gobies and a dragonet. How do you think the fathead sunburst anthias would do with the blue hippo tang. In the 60g i have many overhangs, caves, etc for the anthias.