Anyone have experience with no-copper Ich treatement?

[nwliving]

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience use and Ich treatment containing no copper and no malachite green. I was looking at the Fishvet NO-ICH in a Dr. Foster and Smith catalog. I lost a bunch of fish a while back and now quarantine religiously but just in case I get another outbreak I may try this. Sounds too good. Doesn't harm fish, invertebrates or nitrifying bacteria? So supposedly it can be used in a main tank.

 

[NC2WA]

Have you tried hyposalinity treatments??

Lee Birch has some good stickys in his forum that are worth reading:

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50933

 

[fulkerl]

I have used Kick-Ich and watch my fish die, they keep getting worst even thought I was doing twice the recommended dose. It did not harm anything in my tank, Ich included. Treated the rest of the fish with copper and left my main tank fishless for 10 weeks, now all is great..

 

[NC2WA]

IME Kick-ich is just throwing your money away..the only true way of eradicating Ich is copper and this needs to be done in a QT system.

 

[Emerald525]

I actually had luck with marine max. I know people say it doesn't work and I had to drop a ton of it in the tank but it really did seem to help to get rid of ich quicker. I also supplement with garlic.

 

[Aquanaut]

Lee's a great info on the truth of the matter

We may want to disagree with some methods, but his rings true. That said, only going fallow/fishless is the only method. Hypo will kill all else in addition to sensitive fishes, at the level needed to truly kill ick. Therefore all fishes must go into a QT for the period that it takes the DT to clear itself--check Lee's notes.

From my experience for a non copper tx. I have great sucess w/ CryptoPro. Barrier Reef has this and have also recommend a Xstrength Formalin tx.

Good Luck.

I was just wondering if anyone has had any experience use and Ich treatment containing no copper and no malachite green. I was looking at the Fishvet NO-ICH in a Dr. Foster and Smith catalog. I lost a bunch of fish a while back and now quarantine religiously but just in case I get another outbreak I may try this. Sounds too good. Doesn't harm fish, invertebrates or nitrifying bacteria? So supposedly it can be used in a main tank.

 

[WA98296]

I've used high salt doses for my Koi pond. Sometimes the simplest is best.

 

[nwliving]

I tried the hyposalinity dip for about a minute and then copper treatment in the QT after the outbreak. I think the hyposalinity dip hastened the demise of some fish that were infected and weakened. They may not have survived regardless, who knows. I also left the main tank without fish for about 4 weeks. All fish are clear now. I guess I will just keep up the quarantine tank on any new fish introduced. I got too comfortable with just putting new fish in the main tank, which worked for a while. I now know the error of my ways. Thanks for all the good input.

 

[mike_dani]

my .02

I am no chemist or scientist, so I have no idea why this works but it works for me and all of my fellow reefers here in Alabama. With that being said use it at your own risk as it is an antibiotic.

I use a two fold system, I will add fresh chopped garlic and at the same time add some metronidazole to the tank via the sump. I get my Metro from my Vet 500 500mg tablets for 53.00, I add one tablet per 20 gallons and it works great.

So who am I and what do I know about ICH, let me fill you in. I have a 300 gallon display and 42 fish total, the biggest fish are tangs. There are 15 Tangs in total, I have fought many battles of ICH. I always thought I got ICH because I didn't quarantine my new comers, but after I did try it I still had an outbreak. I finally decided to get my system SPS clean. With that being said I have found that my tank no longer show signs of STRESS once I got the parameters correct. Up until then I had a constant fight with ICH but never lost any fish, upon first signs I would add some Metro and feed chopped garlic and it would clear up in a couple of days.

Good luck to you

 

[nwliving]

I am no chemist or scientist, so I have no idea why this works but it works for me and all of my fellow reefers here in Alabama. With that being said use it at your own risk as it is an antibiotic.

I use a two fold system, I will add fresh chopped garlic and at the same time add some metronidazole to the tank via the sump. I get my Metro from my Vet 500 500mg tablets for 53.00, I add one tablet per 20 gallons and it works great.

So who am I and what do I know about ICH, let me fill you in. I have a 300 gallon display and 42 fish total, the biggest fish are tangs. There are 15 Tangs in total, I have fought many battles of ICH. I always thought I got ICH because I didn't quarantine my new comers, but after I did try it I still had an outbreak. I finally decided to get my system SPS clean. With that being said I have found that my tank no longer show signs of STRESS once I got the parameters correct. Up until then I had a constant fight with ICH but never lost any fish, upon first signs I would add some Metro and feed chopped garlic and it would clear up in a couple of days.

Good luck to you

So you are adding it to your 300 gallon tank? Does the metro cause any problems with beneficial bacteria, corals or invertebrates?

 

[Inconservatory]

Metronidazole won't do anything to the chemistry or bacteria in your tank. It's mostly used for parasitic infections, as well as fungal, I believer.

Mike has an excellent point, though. A stable environment with regular water changes will aid you in your battle against ich or most other ailments. Something in the water is stressing your fish out, which lowers their immune system. What are your water parameters? Has anything been added/changed in the tank recently?

Oh, and welcome to Reef Frontiers!

 

[NC2WA]

There are some that would say garlic does nothing to fight Ich or boost immune system.

...And I will leave it at that.

 

[mike_dani]

-

So you are adding it to your 300 gallon tank? Does the metro cause any problems with beneficial bacteria, corals or invertebrates?

So like I said, having a mostly Tang tank I have become very familiar with ICH and what I believe can benefit your Tangs.

The chopped garlic in the jar at your local grocery store works wonder if added with your frozen food. A few things I have learned over the last year is feed 2-3 times a day with a good quality food, this will keep your tangs fat and healthy. My regiment is as follows; 6am feed flake food
(formula 2)

1pm one sheet of nori

wrapped around PVC and then at 7pm Rods food Green

and Red label

with added chopped garlic.

I run a very simple tank with the highest end piece of equipment being a SWC 300a Skimmer. I change 50 gallons of water every Saturday and dose three part. The biggest change came from when I changed from Reef Crystals over to Aqua Vitro Salinity salt.....

I had also found that I had a K3 power head leaking 22 volts into my tank that I am sure was causing some stress, but the salt and water changes made all of the difference.

I have never had any issues with Bacteria and Metro although I was told I would (got to love internet opinions) I only use this if I don't see a change after 36 hours of heavy chopped garlic use. I sure hope this helps-

So you are adding it to your 300 gallon tank? Does the metro cause any problems with beneficial bacteria, corals or invertebrates?

So like I said, having a mostly Tang tank I have become very familiar with ICH and what I believe can benefit your Tangs.

The chopped garlic in the jar at your local grocery store works wonder if added with your frozen food. A few things I have learned over the last year is feed 2-3 times a day with a good quality food, this will keep your tangs fat and healthy. My regiment is as follows; 6am feed flake food
(formula 2)

1pm one sheet of nori

wrapped around PVC and then at 7pm Rods food Green

and Red label

with added chopped garlic.

I run a very simple tank with the highest end piece of equipment being a SWC 300a Skimmer. I change 50 gallons of water every Saturday and dose three part. The biggest change came from when I changed from Reef Crystals over to Aqua Vitro Salinity salt.....

I had also found that I had a K3 power head leaking 22 volts into my tank that I am sure was causing some stress, but the salt and water changes made all of the difference.

I have never had any issues with Bacteria and Metro although I was told I would (got to love internet opinions) I only use this if I don't see a change after 36 hours of heavy chopped garlic use. I sure hope this helps

 

[pewpewlazerbeam]

Have personally used garlic, cannot say if it is WHY the ich went away. But surely it did and in the future if i am unable to catch a fish or have an inadequate hospital tank available. I will try it again.

 

[Krish]

Could we please try and keep things on a civil level here. Posting should be fun as it is an opportunity to share your experiences and knowledge with one another, but personal attacks are something we try to steer away from or handle in private

 

[Emerald525]

LOL, it appears that the people here are as passionate and opinionated as my past forum:lol:. I think that's great!

I dose with garlic but my gut feeling tells me it's about as useful as giving Vitamin C for a cold. It doesn't help but is not harmful either.

 

[Scooterman]

OK, lets remove all the unnecessary rude remarks and keep it a peaceful discussion, everyone has right to opinions, Lee is a proven Expert & has a plethora of research & information, I think anyone with any question about fish their health & ICK should do some reading in this forum, his stickies are well acknowledged. If a user refuses to do the work then they can stay with their opinions but we can do this peacefully, no need to be rude. Just because I don't agree with someone doesn't mean I should eliminate everyones opinions, I know that sometimes there are rare cases that needs to be moderated & it does happen but I think Mike_dani was not with bad intentions until Mike added some remarks that sounded rude to start with. If your experienced on these boards, then you need to post with restraint & caution so your not misinterpreted, this is the majority of issues of this matter, be clear in your words posted and their meanings. That way, If you are clear & in violation, then the Mods can step in and correct the issue, not the users, even though it is so tempting & we are tight knitted here and take things very personal. So that said, please lets not offend but rather discuss wisely and on friendly terms!

 

[Scooterman]

Could we please try and keep things on a civil level here. Posting should be fun as it is an opportunity to share your experiences and knowledge with one another, but personal attacks are something we try to steer away from or handle in private

Guess, we were posting about the same time, while I was changing things LOL!

Mike & Mike both made remarks unnecessary, hopefully these are now cleared up and we can get back to the topic!

 

[leebca]

I was watching the thread. It was moved over here after the initiation of myth-information. I can only restate the facts as the hobby knows them, as I have researched it, as other researchers have reported. That is all brought together here in the 'starter post' for treatment and the information post on the parasite:
Curing fish of Marine Ich
and
Marine Ich - Myths and Facts

What our hobby is filled with is anecdotal information. An extreme example would be the statement:

People die because they swallow their own saliva.

This short statement says two things: There is an observation part; and there is a conclusion part. The observation that people who die in fact were sallowing their own saliva. But what about that conclusion?

What happens in this hobby, is that those who subscribe to the observation and its conclusion then start telling others to 'stop swallowing your saliva.'

How would you test out such a conclusion? How much would it cost to prove?

Hobbyist make observations, but without testing. Some of these observations have led to testing and the discovery of some important conclusions. But the observations have to be tested. The observation may lead to an important conclusion. But it is confirmed by testing. Testing in the particular case of an obligate parasites such as Cryptocaryon irritans (Marine Ich) requires microscopic work, controlled studies, research and most importantly of all -- another scientist, following the same research proving the identical result in a different lab, maybe a few thousand miles away. Finally, anyone in the world can prove it by following the recommended practice.

This type of testing can be accomplished for under $500 by someone with the necessary equipment and expertise. Considering I could probably earn a few hundred thousand dollars off such a product (hobbyists, professionals, public and private aquariums, etc.) why would I hesitate to show that my product works? The answer is simple. There is no such reef-safe product that will eradicate the parasite, discovered so far. When it IS found, it will make HEADLINES.

I and others of my peer group are asked to perform such studies now and then on 'new' reef-safe products that are meant to cure fish of Marine Ich. I refuse payment or compensation. Others don't. I haven't found one yet that is worth recommending, but I don't and won't denounce any specific ones.

My general guideline is this. Cure all fish that was exposed to Marine Ich following one of the true (scientifically proven) ways. Follow the first post and its links: Curing fish of Marine Ich and you'll take care of it once and for all. From then on, quarantine all new marine life.

This is what marine aquarists, professionals, and vets do. An alternative might be -- start spitting a lot to live longer!

 

[07FocusST]

5-10 minute freshwater dip (match temp & pH to tanks).... Then I sit my fish in a 5 Gallon bucket of Tank water with the proper amount of SeaChem Paragard. Be sure you use heater, thermometer and powerhead with some sort of air injection. Saved my Kole Yellow Eye Tang from certain death.