Bacterial products to reduce nutrient load?

[swissgaurd]

i need to take some more pictures as i switched my lighting from 10k to 12k
reeflux bulbs

 

[DonW]

heres a thread i got going here in canada
with pictures
http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=25185


vic

Since your a dealer maybe you can tell us what is actually happening with the probideo products the info is very vague all over the web. Is this just boosting the aquariums bacteral count?

Don

 

[swissgaurd]

the only thing i know about this product is from tring it myself.
i searched and i to found it to be very skimp on info.
this is what i know only from experience.

it is a live bacteria packaged in glass ampules
removes sludge from aquarium
removes the yellow from the water.
does help reduce nitrate and phosphate.

even the fishes colors are much brighter.

the reef booster is a bacteria as well this feeds the corals .
aquarium specialty does have a forum for prodibo on his site and its got some info from people tring the product

vic

 

[DonW]

the only thing i know about this product is from tring it myself.
i searched and i to found it to be very skimp on info.
this is what i know only from experience.

it is a live bacteria packaged in glass ampules
removes sludge from aquarium
removes the yellow from the water.
does help reduce nitrate and phosphate.

even the fishes colors are much brighter.

the reef booster is a bacteria as well this feeds the corals .
aquarium specialty does have a forum for prodibo on his site and its got some info from people tring the product

vic

So is this stuff you dose on a regular basis? What happens when you stop using it and the bacteria die off or it a common strain that is sustainable by a typical low nutrient reef.

Don

 

[swissgaurd]

i only dosed in my personal tank for 45 days
dosed 3 times at 2 week intervals once done bioclean/biogest i moved onto the reefbooster which i dose every 2 weeks.

i dont think if you stop feeding the reefbooster anything bad will happen youll just use other products to feed your corals.

vic

 

[swissgaurd]

ive got a few customer tanks on prodibo and i havent heard any bad news.

 

[DonW]

i only dosed in my personal tank for 45 days
dosed 3 times at 2 week intervals once done bioclean/biogest i moved onto the reefbooster which i dose every 2 weeks.

i dont think if you stop feeding the reefbooster anything bad will happen youll just use other products to feed your corals.

vic

What about bacterial die off. This is what I would compare to dosing liquified oysters and even vodka. In either of those two methods of boosting bacterial count the system is subject to a bacterial crash. What makes Probideo different?

Don

 

[swissgaurd]

very good question don
i need help on that one

wow in a matter of minutes weve discussed more info that is out on the web.

 

[DonW]

very good question don
i need help on that one

wow in a matter of minutes weve discussed more info that is out on the web.

One more, are both of these ampules pressure sealed with co2 gas?

Don

 

[swissgaurd]

yes it is sealed you have do break the end off
so its shelf life can last for years to come.

nitrogen rings a bell

 

[Skimmy]

Hi Cy, Chris, Tim, Mark....

Do you have Elos (or other) products that promote specific bacteria which will consume excess nutrients in a tank? Which products would those be?

I bought Filtra M but haven't used it yet, and Elos AA, Coral Frenzy and DT's phyto. I use DT twice a week, Coral Frenzy the same, AA every other night.

I would like to experiment with the specific beneficial bacteria such as the Zeo and Prodobio lines have. Some of my corals (not all, just some) are more brown than they should be and I believe it is due to nutrient load as opposed to light, flow, position in tank. I don't want to try vodka or any additive that increases bacteria via shotgun approach, as I'm still struggling with Cyano. I also prefer to keep feeding the fish daily because the tang gets b!#$@y when it's hungry....

thanks

i would suggest that you use the entire prima line with your filtra M, this is basically the same as zeovit, in that it is a combination of bacterias, and foods for your bacterias. also, because elos uses only the highest quality phamaceutical and analytical reagent grade ingredients i would say it's better to use than the actual korallen zucht name brand zeovit additives.

i have never used prodibio additives but have only heard great things about them from friends who have used them, and from stores in portland that use them, im trying to get cy and tim to carry them, so we can try them, but they are ignoring me ...lol

 

[Jan]

What about bacterial die off. This is what I would compare to dosing liquified oysters and even vodka. In either of those two methods of boosting bacterial count the system is subject to a bacterial crash. What makes Probideo different?

Don, can you talk more about this "bacterial crash," since you've used the liquified oyster supplement for a while. Did you notice anything in your tank when you stopped? There are so many people...probably thousands I would think...using Zeovit and other bacterial supplement programs and I've never read or heard of anyone suffering from the effects of bacteria die-off, whether they continued with the program or not. SueT recently posted that she stopped cold turkey on the Blue Coral/Pappone method she was using and had no negative effects from stopping.

 

[Jan]

i have never used prodibio additives but have only heard great things about them from friends who have used them, and from stores in portland that use them, im trying to get cy and tim to carry them, so we can try them, but they are ignoring me ...lol

Me too, Mark, in terms of only hearing great things. It will be interesting to see what happens with my tank with the combo Filtra M and Prodobio Bioclean supplementation. If you looked at Iwan's huge thread on RC, the fellow from Switzerland, he used a combination of Prodobio, Zeostart 2, and GAC with outstanding results.

 

[barrierreefcf]

You're funny Mark

We just want to wait until there is more info and customer feedback. Our philosophy has always been to avoid the new, un-proven, products until they have a track record of success. There is a huge list of products that were hot for a minute, but proved to be nothing but snake-oil or were improved upon after a few months.

We are inching closer to accepting Prodibio but we still want to see more and see how it is different from the Purist Line. If the Elos products do the same thing why go away from something that is proven?

 

[Jan]

Cy

From what I gather the Prodobio products have been used for 4-5 years in Europe, but only started to catch on in the States starting 2004, by word of mouth (and people looking at pictures of Iwan's amazing tank).

Here is that thread...it's humongous, by the way.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700454&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

His tank was started 2 years before these initial photos, and if I remember correctly he'd been using Prodobio for ~6 months.

 

[DonW]

Don, can you talk more about this "bacterial crash," since you've used the liquified oyster supplement for a while. Did you notice anything in your tank when you stopped? There are so many people...probably thousands I would think...using Zeovit and other bacterial supplement programs and I've never read or heard of anyone suffering from the effects of bacteria die-off, whether they continued with the program or not. SueT recently posted that she stopped cold turkey on the Blue Coral/Pappone method she was using and had no negative effects from stopping.

Do some more research. There have been many failures right along with the success stories. I think you will find that most if not all the success stories are very expeienced reef keepers with a good understand of what is happening as they add these products. Not understanding is what will get you into hot water. 45 days, 6 months or even a year is not what I would view as success ,the time frame is way to short.

Look at reality, this is the internet. Folks post what they want people to see, how many post show pictures of completly crashed dead tanks.

Now any time that we push the bacterial count past the limit that the tank can sustain on its own there is going to be side effects. Assuming that we are dealing with a natural strain that already exist in our systems its pretty simple to ween a system back down just the same way we got it up. It would be a pretty big assuption to assume that the bacteria in a bottle is naturally occuring since it must be fed a special diet to survive. Also I would assume if it was natural occuring you could just use the special food and boost what you already have with exactly the same results with no bacteria addition.

You used Sue and I as examples. Sue used so very little and moved with exteme caution as she always does. She also posted how happy whe was with the tank after she stopped and just let nature take its course. Take a look at her old tank grown naturally.

I stopped the system after pushing the envelope only to have a huge algae algae out break. I used the system to clear the tank back up and then weened the tank slowly. But as with most cases I didnt post the photos of how lousy the tank looked only the great coral growth pics.

Also take a look at the method your using now. Can your system take care of the load that it currently has? Do you have algae problems? Are you corals brown when they shouldnt be? If you have problems now, how is the system going to deal wth a bacterial die off wether it be caused by quiting a system, power outage, heater failure or what ever???

Don

 

[rjarnold]

My Elos research was not so productive...the English translation on ElosUSA was really in Italian, which made it tough. I even tried the Altavista language translator and the translation from Italian made no sense either. So I couldn't get a feel for what the two products do. Last, I posted on the Elosusa forum on RC and Jesse answered. All he said was that I should use the whole line, but "many people have success with FiltraM by itself." There was no description or explanation from him either.
QUOTE]

Yeah, I would say that not having a good English translation on a lot of the products is the biggest drawback to using Elos products right now. It would be really cool if someone would do an "Elos workshop" and explain each and everyone of their products and how it is/is not used. Or, they could just get someone to get some decent translations on their website! When Barrier has their sale later this summer I'm taking advantage of the Elos discount that they'll *hopefully* have again and getting the entire purist line =D Waiting impatiently, er, patiently for that

 

[barrierreefcf]

We are working to try and get Jesse (Elos USA) and Nick (Elos Italy) up here in September for our next big event. Between the two of them they can fill in all the details. I am out right now, but we also get extensive, updated, complete Elos catalogs. They also tell me that the website is going to be updated in the near future. Part of the problem is that the info on the packaging and website was translated into so many different langauges that none of them turned out that great. Elos plans to refine them as well. With the US being a new market we will have too bear with them as they fine tune things for us. And yes...Elos products will be on sale again and the raffle for a System 70 is on!

 

[Bricky]

So when can I start buying tickets for the System 70 raffle? Will you have other Elos products as part of the raffle (ie. a purist line setup)?

 

[barrierreefcf]

We'll probably start selling raffle tickets towards the end of August. Yes there will be other Elos products in a seperate raffle with other items. More info will follow.