Being Conscientious

[highlands]

What does being a conscientious aquarist mean to you?

It is important to keep in mind that there are a lot of other activities (shell collecting, fishing, airport building, road building, sewage, industrial & agricultural runoff, etc) that are many orders of magnitude more destructive to the reefs and fishies than the collecting that goes on for aquaria.

That said, to me, being contientious means learning about the plants and animals before buying them, providing appropriate environments so I have a good chance of having them thrive and not keeping things that I can't provide for and not keeping wild caught things that will endanger the wild population.

Unfortunately this means I had to strike from my wish list: polar bears, bulga whales, dolphins, great white sharks and a few other species. Bummer dude.

 

[Forestal]

Nice thread Nikki...

The more i learn the less concientious i feel...i have started to try to get only livestock i have researched and felt to be safe and compatible, and preferably captive bred.
Maxx, i also tend to hang out at the LFS here and the guys there are very willing to learn, and taught me a lot, so we tend to bounce stuff off each other, they stopped getting the flying fish and wierd stuff, and now are only getting more appropriate things for home aquarists.
they tend to not sell to folks who are unprepared, which is nice.

i think education of ourselves and others is important. I use my reef at home to show people a sliver of what is out there and dying off, and hopefully we can save what is left

 

[NaH2O]

Something I find difficult when talking about fish, is the purchase of a species that is known not to live in captivity very long. Even if the fish is eating prepared foods - for some species this may not be enough. I believe some cleaner wrasses (illegal to collect in Hawaii.....L. phthirophagus), Bob Fenner writes they are obligate cleaners......which means they receive all or almost all their nutrition from their cleaning activity. Bob further writes, that he has heard stories and seen this same species eating prepared foods (including live foods) and still the fish wastes away. I don't know how often these fish are seen for sale, but it is an example of one species I have read about. The other would be the moorish idol (FOTW ~Zanclus cornutus~). Here is a quote from Terry B on the subject. I think he sums it up well.

Yes, the Moorish Idol is a spectacular fish that tempts even the most conscientious aquarist. However, I agree that their survival rate in private aquariums in dismal at best. I have seen many of them that are voracious eaters and they die within months anyway. I also suspect that there is something missing in their diet that we cannot provide and they are very susceptible to any sort of stress. Success with this or any other species of fish is measured in years not months. IMO, anything less is ultimate failure and a waste of life.

Terry B

I know that some of the teenagers working in LFS probably don't know alot about every species for sale, and maybe some of them don't care.....its just a job. I think this is part of the problem......cheap labor. But, a store has to make money. Maybe they could make some books more available for customers to browse while they consider a purchase. Set a book out, or have a quick reference card available for customers to look at. Somehow there has to be a way to educate your customers that won't take a lot of time. Of course, the fish just put out for sale needs to get sold to cover expenses. Sometimes its hard for me to remember the store needs to make money, too. My LFS, knows me......and I know the staff well enough to talk about these issues.

A different aspect of being conscientious........how about the use of cyanide? Do you ask a store before you purchase if they buy from places that strictly use nets?

 

[Forestal]

good point about cyanide Nikki, unfortunately, my LFS get their fish from bigger suppliers, and tend not to know...but i guess if we start asking for proof, they may change who they purchase fish from

 

[NaH2O]

With cyanide I remember reading a thread where the people catching the fish, have to use cyanide because the collectors won't buy the fish from them unless they use their (the collectors) cyanide. So it was almost like the people catching the fish didn't have a choice (a thread from RDO? I don't remember). I imagine things have improved, but on what scale? (I'll do some digging to find the thread).

I was told in my young life by a teacher, that I'd make a good attorney - partly because I like to play devil's advocate on occasion, and partly because I talk alot (arguing had nothing to do with it LOLOL)......at any rate....I'll play devil's advocate for a moment. How do you feel about the purchase of fish or livestock that have extremely poor success rates....all for the advancement of the hobby? Is it a risk to take in the hopes that you will have a success on your hands....you could potentially help the species live in captivity in the future?

 

[Scooterman]

cyanide caught fish don't seem to live very long, it is like they shot up or something, I was never able to keep any, I have this one LFS that doesn't care where they get their fish as long as the price is cheap, she turns them around rather quick at a high price & no warranty always the customers fault. Sometimes she looses over 30% before they even get to her store, & I've heard this from several stores loosing a good percentage before they even get into a holding tank, this may not be the case on the west coast but think about them traveling 2,500 miles or more.

 

[NaH2O]

I would love to know average losses on most fish shipments to the US. I really don't have a clue what percentage makes it here....let alone to my part of the country from the West Coast.

Well....I found the article I remember reading . It is an old one (1999), so things have probably changed since then. Here's a quote (The Trade of Ornamental Fish From the Phillipines):

Soon, collectors realized that there was no an incentive for the extra effort when using nets. The prices middlemen and exporters were paying for Net-Caught fish were the same they were getting before for cyanide collected fish.Some middlemen do not buy the net caught fish, if the collectors do not buy the cyanide tablets. These are some of the reasons why some trained collectors were dragged back to the clutches of cyanide.

 

[MarineDreamerII]

I think that you all hit it right on the nose. If we can both educate the masses about the fagile ecosystems that are Coral Reefs (the goal being to maintain and sustain) and enjoy the benefits that they can give to us then I say more power to us. But what do I know, I'm just a Gobie : ) It is easy to ignore the destruction of an ant hill in some desert in Africa when you don't know about it. While the coral reefs are much more important than just a single ant hill, the point still stands. If people learn to appreciate something, they are much more likely to want that 'thing' to stick around. Unfortunately, I dont see things getting better for our coral reefs. Science is now showing that within a matter of decades they could be all but gone (like glaciers at Glacier National Park) Anyway, off subjecy. The way to save is to educate.

 

[wrighty]

Hi - Im just another Gobie with an opinion

Conscientious to me means never knowingly or willingly exceeding my abilities at any current time and ensuring I am armed with enough information and experience before moving to the next level

I will not buy a coral i do not know anything about
I will not buy a fish with a reputation of being difficult to keep/ feed
I only keep the creatures I know my system can maintain in optimum conditions

I do not believe I willl be the exception to the rule that Idols, Gonis, Mandarins etc do not do well in aquaria

Thus still keep a tank of softies and LPS with a scattering of hardy fishes

Not an expert but doing OK by remaining within and knowing what my limitations are

Steve

 

[Maxx]

Well said Steve!
BTW, how accessable is this hobby in China?

Nick

 

[Woodstock]

Just thinking about this subject makes me feel guilty... Eventhough I've always kept very, very good care of my aquarium inhabitants and my strong sense of responsiblity towards any coral or fish I have pushes me on when I get 'burned out' or otherwise don't feel like doing a water change or other type of maintenance; I still feel bad about all the collectors out there harvesting fish/corals for reef hobbyists. Personally, I will welcome a law of some kind that would somehow police our world's reefs. Any fish/coral/rock, etc. removed from the ocean has an impact beit small or large. Research, research, research before any and all purchases...if in doubt, DON'T buy it! Resist impulse buys(this is a tough one .

 

[NaH2O]

MikeS and I recently discussed this issue a bit. I wonder if there is or will be controls (like CITES) for certain species of fish.

 

[Woodstock]

Probably eventually. But enforcing it will be VERY hard. Just think.. having a task force to inspect all collected fish/corals! Yikes! Hopefully the inspector would be educated enough to know one species from another. It would probably delay the shipping of the animals even further forcing them to stay in holding areas longer... I invision many difficulites with trying to control a certain species. They'll probably go with a full blanket ban since it would be cheaper to enforce??

 

[randythereefer]

I think one of the most important parts of my job as a reefer is to educate people who look at my reef tank about the destruction of the coral reefs, write to my congresspeople to encourage laws that protect the reefs, and be responsible about my limitations. The first time I bought an acropora coral it got RTN and died. It was my fault. But since that time many years ago I have gained a great insight into lighting, water quality etc and invested a great deal of money. Now I end up selling frags back to my LFS where from what I've been told they've gone as far as Canada . I think if everyone stopped trying we wouldn't advance as a hobby. It is our job to be custodians of our planet and make sure we do our best to provide a healthy environment for our livestock and to help ensure that our reefs around the world survive for centuries to come. I wonder if the last person who cut down a tree on easter island ever wondered if maybe it was a bad idea.

 

[MikeS]

Probably eventually. But enforcing it will be VERY hard. Just think.. having a task force to inspect all collected fish/corals! Yikes!

well...if it will be anything like enforcing CITES restrictions on protected animals like parrots, all wholesalers would have to prove that livestock for sale was domestically bred and raised, and they will have to certify such, or be liable for criminal penalties. Probably more difficult with fish than enforcing it on animals like parrots, but IMO it is possible. Many breeders and retailers don't even risk importing wild CITES protected parrots for fear of getting caught....boom...out of business... Now if the same thing happens with fish, while it will not likely stop illeagal import of the animals, it will at the very least put a huge dent in it...

MikeS

 

[MikeS]

Live rock harvesting is already a target of environmentalist and conservationalist groups...

http://www.reefguardian.org/WhyCare/FijiLiveRock.html

look for this to be one of the first items regulated....already regulated in some US waters...to the enviornmentalists, removal of live rock from the reef is the same as cutting down the trees in the forests...they say it is destroying the habitat...

MikeS

 

[NaH2O]

For some reason I thought live rock was regulated by CITES under Scleractinia, but the website says "Fossils are not subject to the provisions of the Convention". I'm assuming rock falls under fossil?

I looked at the fish listed and Hippocampus spp., as well as Cheilinus undulatus (Labridae wrasse), were listed under Appendix II for regulation. CITES appendices I, II and III

 

[wrighty]

Cheers Nick

Sorry about delay reply - time zones and all that

Reef keeping in China as a hobby is reasonably well catered for as far as live stock is concerned and a 3rd world economy (albeit making leaps and bounds improvements) is hardly likely to be concerned with CITES lists - if someone will buy it, someone will sell it - I do not judge! as I am fortunate to be able to afford to make moral choices - some of the people here are not

I have to use my previously gained knowledge and experience in addition to my consciouse otherwise I would have a tank full of Gonis at about 8 USD a peice - so temptation is stronger for those with funds in China

Good quality dry goods is a different story with most of my hardware being imported or shipped over with people who visit me

Steve

 

[FishyinKy]

MikeS and I recently discussed this issue a bit. I wonder if there is or will be controls (like CITES) for certain species of fish.

Seahorses are already being regulated under Cites. Which is a very good thing. I think the one thing to remember here is that this hobby has made huge advances in a very short period of time. It keeps growing and getting better and better. My point here is that if people hadn't pushed the boundaries and tried to keep these "unkeepable" fish we wouldn't know that angelfish need sponges and that we had to provide them and unfortunately I think that its going to take a lot more of this kind of thing. BUT if we all communicate on these boards and give the connections we can help each other make more contientious decisions about OUR input into this hobby. Gawd I hope that wasn't too rambling.

 

[NaH2O]

I saw that - about the seahorses....there is a species of Labridae wrasse under CITES, too. I understand about pushing boundaries, but I feel only extremely skilled reefers should attempt some of the species sold in the hobby, and even then.....there may be something specialized in the diet of the fish that can't be met with prepared foods (like you mentioned about sponges and angelfish). If the fish can be kept out of the stores, then the likely hood of someone purchasing the fish that isn't educated on it, is decreased. An "expert"/extremely skilled reefer would likely have the resources to purchase a "hard to get" fish, and could special order it. Now I'm the one who's rambling..... lol.