bryopsis help please.

[Scooterman]

Adding the second DI is used to switch one out when it runs its usefulness & still have another DI in-line, this extends the first DI resin until it is completely used up. My TDS out the RO when first start up is about 25 then it slowly runs down to 1, I have a dual 75gpd membrane so that probably explains why it goes to 1 rather than 3. As mentioned the scale of our typical TDS meters aren't low enough to read Lab grade accuracy but it isn't necessary If you have a good understanding of what is happening & how to get the most out of your unit.
Short cycling a RO/DI as mentioned creates lots of TDS Creep this uses up the DI a lot faster, so using a large tank & making large volume water is a good way of making water, also cleaning the reservoir on a regular basis, using black hoses for the top off etc. I used a 40g green tank, food grade for this purpose. Trying to calibrate your TDS meter won't really help as much as running your RO/DI a while before filling a tank or using it, avoiding the short cycles completely. Your local Municipals have to post yearly water reports & post it publicly, the filter guys helped me find my local web site & the report & all the other reports for the past years. You must remember though things change & what you get out your pipes change constantly so a low TDS today doesn't mean you'll get that every single day, so being set-up to exceed that would be recommended. I usuall y run the first few minutes of ro/di unto the washer, then make water, then back flush before shutting off.
Running samples to get tested is a good basis to understand what your dealing with, once you get this under control you can move on to the next step, getting your problem algae under control!
NC2WA:
You mentioned scrubbing your rocks, it takes more than that but it does help, you may have to do it several times over a few months. I've cooked lr to the extreme, bleached rocks using Boomer formula but now think, to succeed several things must happen, one most important time & patients.

 

[DonW]

The tds creep argument is truely not about water quality of the tank. Its a good argument for di resin consumption but thats about it. For some this may be an issue but if you dont mind buying more di resin then it really doesnt matter unless you have very high tds. AWT water testing is inconsistant and many times just plain not accurate. If you want real accuracy take a sample to Spectra Labs in Tacoma. A P test reading of 0 just means the kit is not detecting P or the user is having a hard time seeing the colors. If you want to read very low P numbers at home you will need to buy colormeter. Not very expensive but obviously you can run a nice reef without one.

Reefers jump through hoops to get good water quality yet most have a different idea of what low nutrients actually is. Short of going to a lab like spectra, just looking at the tank will give a good idea of nutrient levels. If a tank will support nuisance alaga and aptasia it not low nutrients. With any closed system your going to have issues. It doesnt matter how big your skimmer or if you thousands invested in filtration devices. All any filter does is buy you time between real hands on servicing.

Remember if its in your tank you put it there so being proactive and not puting it there to begin with will prevent most if not all problems.

Don

 

[jnarowe]

All any filter does is buy you time between real hands on servicing.

Remember if its in your tank you put it there so being proactive and not puting it there to begin with will prevent most if not all problems.

Don

I couldn't agree more. That's why I did the fish food making demonstration last January.

It's true that "TDS" does not reflect total nutrients and is not really an accurate measurement thereof, but for most hobbyists, it's all they got. And the point I was making regarding AWT and labs is that they also are not geared toward our needs specifically.

What kind of lab is Spectra? The local water testing labs only test for certain
things like lead, arsenic, etc. and do not cover all of the parameters we are commonly interested in.

And perhaps a better way to put it, is a zero PO4 reading merely means your system is utilizing PO4 as fast as it is produced, and not that there is actually none in the system.

 

[DonW]

I couldn't agree more. That's why I did the fish food making demonstration last January.

It's true that "TDS" does not reflect total nutrients and is not really an accurate measurement thereof, but for most hobbyists, it's all they got. And the point I was making regarding AWT and labs is that they also are not geared toward our needs specifically.

What kind of lab is Spectra? The local water testing labs only test for certain
things like lead, arsenic, etc. and do not cover all of the parameters we are commonly interested in.

Spectra is a "real" lab. They will test for anything you want or your budget will allow. They do most of the F&W testing for WA for both fresh and the Sound.

Most if not all tds creep will be consumed by the di. This is not to say tds creep isnt an issue but for most. Scaling of the ro membrane is probably the biggest concern but for folks like me with incomming conductivity being so low it not an issue. If you happen to be on a well then its a real concern and should be addressed.

Don

 

[ziggy]

Don,
Will you elaborate on the RO scaling.


Thank you,
Chad

 

[DonW]

Don,
Will you elaborate on the RO scaling.


Thank you,
Chad

A membrane will scale or foul especially if the rodi unit is short cycled with water high in ca. You know you have high ca if you get water spots on your dishes or shower. If you run your ro for only a few minutes at a time, each time you let it set it build up a layer eventually fouling the membrane. Just like if you never clean your shower door eventuall they will have a thick white build up. Scaling is insoluble so cant be flushed away unless you use some sort of acidic cleaning method. There are other elements that foul membranes but for the most part ca is the largest contributor.

Don

 

[jnarowe]

And this scaling is the key issue I have with my conductivity probes as well right? It makes them virtually useless long-term.

 

[Scooterman]

scaling messes up everything & that is putting it kindly

 

[NC2WA]

Don,

Does spectra labs have a web site? Whether it is Spectra Labs or AWT, I would love to have a professional water test done just for piece of mind.

I am in Bothell and on city water. However, it would seem that a DI filter is in order for me (to at least consume the TDS creep (whatever the value is)).

 

[matts125]

The tds creep argument is truely not about water quality of the tank. Its a good argument for di resin consumption but thats about it. For some this may be an issue but if you dont mind buying more di resin then it really doesnt matter unless you have very high tds. AWT water testing is inconsistant and many times just plain not accurate. If you want real accuracy take a sample to Spectra Labs in Tacoma. A P test reading of 0 just means the kit is not detecting P or the user is having a hard time seeing the colors. If you want to read very low P numbers at home you will need to buy colormeter. Not very expensive but obviously you can run a nice reef without one.

Reefers jump through hoops to get good water quality yet most have a different idea of what low nutrients actually is. Short of going to a lab like spectra, just looking at the tank will give a good idea of nutrient levels. If a tank will support nuisance alaga and aptasia it not low nutrients. With any closed system your going to have issues. It doesnt matter how big your skimmer or if you thousands invested in filtration devices. All any filter does is buy you time between real hands on servicing.

Remember if its in your tank you put it there so being proactive and not puting it there to begin with will prevent most if not all problems.

Don

Don thank you for clarifying that!!!

matt

 

[NC2WA]

Scooty (or anyone),

Can you please explain the steps of how to "boil" or "cook" live rock?

If raising the Mg level does not kill the bryopsis, since the only fish in my tank is a sand sifting goby, I am considering starting over and would like to cook the rock to rid once and for all the bryopsis.

 

[Scooterman]

Cooking & boiling is two different strategies completely, boiling kills everything, cooking is the method used when you put your rocks in a tub of SW heated & a ph for movement, then keeping it in the dark completely for weeks. During this process you do wc's every so often & usually takes 6 to 8 weeks & some going even longer.

I was more successful with scrubbing the LR on old tub of sw & rinsing another before putting back in while doing a large wc.
saying that I've also succeeded in bleaching rather than boiling as Boomer describes here, as a last resort.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34816&highlight=bleach+rock

 

[NC2WA]

Boy I hope this Mg treat works. As I really do NOT want to start over.

 

[apollothesun]

well on my third day of the fauna marin algae x and must say its starting to bubble the bryopsis. ive been manually hand taking out the big strands. no ill effects on the livestock but i notice that the little brittlestars come out of the rockwork in full force, they act kinda drunk too. skimming is starting to get a little wet too.


i tried the cooking way and it works. took 3 months though. i had some big pieces of live rock in my display tank that i couldnt cook, had to much valuable sponges on them. when you cook, everything usually dies on the rock. get ready for those water changes too. hopefully this algae x can take care of my display tank.

 

[NC2WA]

Well, I added a bulk mixture of Mg chloride and sulfate as indicated on bulkreefsupply site last night. No harmful effects to corals, but the lights are still out, so kinda hard to see.

I will give another report when I come home from work and the lights are on.

 

[NC2WA]

my first mixture of Mg only raised my level from 1000ppm to 1200ppm, so I performed an addtional mixture last night and checked my reading this morning. It was at 1600ppm. I am hoping the next couple of days I start the decline of the bryopsis. So far all of the corals do not seem affected.

 

[Reeferdude]

Good information jnarowe. This should get Matt on the road to recovery.

Matt, did you get that PM I sent you? I didn't see a response..

 

[jnarowe]

Thanks. I did want to clarify one thing regarding TDS creep. My testing is done post resin so it is my feeling that although the resin will pull out most of the "creep", is does not get it all, and constantly cycling an RO/DI unit on and off will result in this happening quite often, to the detriment of the finished product.

I don't argue with DonW, mostly because he really knows this stuff cold, but his perspective is much different than the average reef keeper, who might not be paying attention to some of these details. There are many that buy filtration units and fully trust the output, without giving it much thought. So my point is to stimulate them to action. To get them to NOT trust their filtration, their salt, their Ca media, their carbon, etc.

We so often buy stuff off the shelf with no real knowledge of what we are introducing into our systems, and then get plagued by so many frustrating problems that can all be traced back to these things we trust.

 

[matts125]

Thanks. I did want to clarify one thing regarding TDS creep. My testing is done post resin so it is my feeling that although the resin will pull out most of the "creep", is does not get it all, and constantly cycling an RO/DI unit on and off will result in this happening quite often, to the detriment of the finished product.

I don't argue with DonW, mostly because he really knows this stuff cold, but his perspective is much different than the average reef keeper, who might not be paying attention to some of these details. There are many that buy filtration units and fully trust the output, without giving it much thought. So my point is to stimulate them to action. To get them to NOT trust their filtration, their salt, their Ca media, their carbon, etc.

We so often buy stuff off the shelf with no real knowledge of what we are introducing into our systems, and then get plagued by so many frustrating problems that can all be traced back to these things we trust.

I cant argue with that!!!

that is a very good way of looking at it. and there are a lot of people that dont know or understand what every chemical or addative is doing to their system but trust it becuase it says (for marine tanks) on it!

Matt

 

[Tone]

With regards to increasing magnesium to kill off bryopsis, there is general consensus that the only magnesium supplement which achieves the eradication of bryopsis is Kent Marine Tech-M. In my own experience -- took 2 years to kill it off -- the following manesium supplements did not work: Magnesium chloride and magnesium sulphate (epsom salts). What did knock it off for me was constant harvesting, raising Mg to 2300ppm with Tech-M, the ultimate attention to good husbandry practise, week long dark periods over an extended period of time, and eventually vodka dosing to rip into N and P although N was always neglible in my display. Phosphate testing with Saliphert always showed a colour but it sat <0.03ppm; recently using a photometer I found it to be 0.1ppm -- the source of fuel for the bryopsis

My tank has a couple of small patches of bryopsis still around but the rabbitfish and tangs are keeping it at bay whilst I persist with the vodka dosing.

HTH,

Tone