Bulletproof Reef:Tips for Avoiding wipeout

[jezzeaepi]

The new year has come and after all the devistating problems people have had in the PNW with power outages it made me think of how many ways my tank could be wiped out. With a bit of planning though I think most of these peril's can be avoided.
Ill start out with a tip and story from myself and hopefully there will be lots of responses so we can all make our tanks as "bulletproof" as possible. With all the things we do to care for and grow our coral, it suprises me how few tanks make it to the 5+ year mark. Not every "tank killer" can be stopped, but theres probably atleast a little all of us could do to beef up our system.

My tip:
Be carefull in choosing your tank. If your choosing a glass tank, avoid the cheap brands from petco or petsmart if possible(applies more to the smaller tanks then the larger ones). If you are using an older tank, do so within reason. In then end theres just a bit of plastic and silicone holding your entire reef together. Settle for nothing less then the best IMHO. There usually not much hope for recovery on a busted tank.

My story:
I have owned 4 glass fish tanks. Two of them developed leaks that resulted in large messes and loss of livestock. One of the tanks the broke was probably around 10 years old, the other was 3 months old. The 3 month tank was from petsmart. Both tanks didnt "explode" they just developed leaks in the joints where the silicone seperated and drained their water while I was out of the house. Since these mishaps I have had very little faith in glass tanks. My 125 gallon that is at my moms house is probably 8 or 9 years old. When I upgrade my 40 gallon to a 125 gallon for my reef I will not be using that tank because of its age. An old tank is a ticking time bomb imho and I have not to the skills to re silicone it and have it look good when it was done. Not all of us can be as lucky as Paul B and have them last 30+ years.



Take it easy,
Jesse

 

[morgan]

so ur saying periodiclly its a good idead to replace your glass tank
thisw hobby just gets more expensive all the time

 

[Reefdaddy1]

The new year has come and after all the devistating problems people have had in the PNW with power outages it made me think of how many ways my tank could be wiped out. With a bit of planning though I think most of these peril's can be avoided.
Ill start out with a tip and story from myself and hopefully there will be lots of responses so we can all make our tanks as "bulletproof" as possible. With all the things we do to care for and grow our coral, it suprises me how few tanks make it to the 5+ year mark. Not every "tank killer" can be stopped, but theres probably atleast a little all of us could do to beef up our system.

My tip:
Be carefull in choosing your tank. If your choosing a glass tank, avoid the cheap brands from petco or petsmart if possible(applies more to the smaller tanks then the larger ones). If you are using an older tank, do so within reason. In then end theres just a bit of plastic and silicone holding your entire reef together. Settle for nothing less then the best IMHO. There usually not much hope for recovery on a busted tank.

My story:
I have owned 4 glass fish tanks. Two of them developed leaks that resulted in large messes and loss of livestock. One of the tanks the broke was probably around 10 years old, the other was 3 months old. The 3 month tank was from petsmart. Both tanks didnt "explode" they just developed leaks in the joints where the silicone seperated and drained their water while I was out of the house. Since these mishaps I have had very little faith in glass tanks. My 125 gallon that is at my moms house is probably 8 or 9 years old. When I upgrade my 40 gallon to a 125 gallon for my reef I will not be using that tank because of its age. An old tank is a ticking time bomb imho and I have not to the skills to re silicone it and have it look good when it was done. Not all of us can be as lucky as Paul B and have them last 30+ years.



Take it easy,
Jesse

I have to disagree with ya. If that were true My Plywood tank would have lasted 1 year. It lasted 9 years. So I built another one. It lasted for 5 ( till I tore them down) I Feel most people just dont watch or take care of thier of the tank, I reseal them over time and feel that with proper care and a watchful eye most disasters concerning a tank are avoidable.
I had a 55 gallon for amlmost 12 years and now a lady I sold it to still has it. I feel if you buy a tank know what it is and if it is AGA or Oceanic your good. Or make one yourself.

 

[ronj]

Both tanks didnt "explode" they just developed leaks in the joints where the silicone seperated and drained their water while I was out of the house.

i feel ya!!! my 30g did this exact same thing last month..it was around 10years old, maybe older..it was my first SW tank. i noticed water dripping from the background of the tank..a seal had started leaking..i tossed it and bought a new one!! hopefully my big tanks never have this problem.. i think moving them and other factors con tribute to wear in the seals

 

[Krish]

One of the biggest problems I see with tanks springing leaks is from people who lift them with water, rock or sand in them... Big "No No". Other than that, I've seen All-Glass tanks the last years upon years. Infact, my first 90 gal I ever had back in 1997 (which I sold to a friend), he still has up and running to this date so I guess it all depends on the condition you get the tank in as well as how you care for them.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

ditto Krish

 

[coil1002]

I have never bought a new tank in my life way too pricey I have always bought used and never had a prob. I have kept fish for the last 18 years How ever I always re do the silicone before I put it into use

 

[aquarookie]

IMO, the first step in making your tank "bulletproof" is buying a generator, even if it is the small $200 one, as long as it can keep a light, heater and a pump running in your tank. Way too many people lose livestock due to power outages, and it is so preventable. Other than that, I think quarantine is very important in order not to introduce some disease that will wipe out your whole tank (I did not do that and boy, was I sorry).

 

[coil1002]

100 bux here I wonder if they are any good ?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...?storeId=6970&productId=200313480&R=200313480

 

[Llarian]

Harbor Freight has some good inexpensive generators as well. You don't need the high quality output required for things like computers with a reef (unless you're powering a controller, in which case you should probably have a UPS on it)

-Dylan

 

[trido]

100 bux here I wonder if they are any good ?

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...?storeId=6970&productId=200313480&R=200313480

You can get a Power inverter from Kragen for less that will mount to your truck or car and will be MUCH quieter, You wont have to keep mixed gas around and takes less space.


Dont count on too much automation, electronics wear out.
Also, I hear of alot of over heating due to heater failures. Replace them every few years whether they work or not.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Morgan-
"so ur saying periodiclly its a good idead to replace your glass tank
thisw hobby just gets more expensive all the time"

You dont have to run out and replace the tank you currently have but next time you do a set up you might think twice about using a tank that might not last as long as your reef could last. Remember its just a tip not a thread of maxims.

Reefdaddy-
"I have to disagree with ya. If that were true My Plywood tank would have lasted 1 year. It lasted 9 years. "

If what were true? What did i say about plywood tanks? If you have a tip about making a long lasting plywood tank please add it.

"I Feel most people just dont watch or take care of thier of the tank, I reseal them over time and feel that with proper care and a watchful eye most disasters concerning a tank are avoidable."

Right so it sounds like we agree.

"I had a 55 gallon for amlmost 12 years and now a lady I sold it to still has it."

The lady you sold it too is lucky then that the previous owner knew how to take care of a glass tank properly but not everyone does. When you are getting a used tank you never know what its really been through, only what the owner tells you. Maybe that owner got it second hand and he/she doesnt know the true history either.


Krish-
Thats what Im talking about. People do dumb things like that with their tanks and you would never know they did it untill your living room is full of water.

Coil1002-
"How ever I always re do the silicone before I put it into use"
Thats all Im saying. I personally would choose not to do that project but there are many handy folk who can save a pretty penny by doing it.


Trido-
"Dont count on too much automation, electronics wear out.
Also, I hear of alot of over heating due to heater failures. Replace them every few years whether they work or not."

Thats a good idea. How often do you think we should repace other elctronics like powerheads? Temp/ph/orp probes?

The generator:
There are many generator options out there for folks who have a house with a yard, but what do you do if you live in an apartment, or some other living siutation that doesnt allow for a generator?
I know you can do something with a battery and an inverter but thats about as far as Ive gotten. If anyone has set one up recently I would really like to hear what you used and how well its worked for you.

 

[trido]

quote:
How often do you think we should repace other elctronics like powerheads? Temp/ph/orp probes?

Being new to the reefing side of aquariums I really have no idea how long the life of probes and controllers should be. I would think that as long as the probe isnt attached to a controller thats it failing wouldnt be critical. As a probes accuracy starts to fail a diligent reefer would most likely notice something not quite right and start investigating. I myself will probably never use a conroller because I like to tinker with my tank. Testing gives me something to do and is part of the hobby that I enjoy.

With near 20 years of FW I have found that heaters tend to last about 5 years. I have never had one overheat. They have always just died, lucky me. Regarding powerheads, I have always noticed the magnets getting grooves in them after a few years or so. They always start to get noisey and chatter alot about that time too. I replace them then because they are annoying I have never had a powerhead meltdown where the internal oils leach into the system. I have heard of it. Somethings you just cant forsee.

Regarding generators, Honda makes a model that produces 2000 watts and only makes about 50db of noise. My sequence barracuda make more noise than that. Unfortunately its about $2000. During our power outage last month I used an 800 watt inverter (with my truck running) and ran both of my tanks (mag 18,maxijet 1200 and three heaters totaling 575 watts. I am curious how long a deep cell marine battery would last in this situation. Fortunately I didnt need lights. BTW, I now have a 6300 Watt generator and will get a 40 gallon gas tank for beside my house I can then go four days without power. After that, Im sure my tanks will be the least of my worries. It really is surprizing how many reefers arent prepared for power outages. I for example, have invested near ten thousand dollars into setting up my two tanks last year. I think that an extra thousand for a generator is a small price to pay to protect my investment.

 

[dnjan]

Put your return pump on a separate circuit from your closed loop/powerheads.

That way, when your GFCI trips for whatever reason, you will still have enough circulation in the tank to maintain oxygen levels.

 

[DonW]

Trido-
"Dont count on too much automation, electronics wear out.
Also, I hear of alot of over heating due to heater failures. Replace them every few years whether they work or not."

I disagree with both of these. Throwing away a perfectly good heater is just waste. Not counting to much on electronic and automation? Most people do this wether they realize it or not just in simple form. I dont think most folks have near enough electronics and redundancy or they skimp.Do electronics fail? Sure just like your tv and cell phone will some day die. If your cell phone dies you pick up a land line, you tv dies you go to the other room. You have redundancy. If your granny is in the hospital on life support, is she history if the power goes out? Of course not they have redundancy. Your tank is the same, its a life support system for its inhabitants right down to the bacteria in the rock.
Do you need to monitor and automate absolutly everything? Well of course not, but keeping redundancy in the basic life support systems WILL save your tank someday.

JMO
Don

 

[krisfal]

100 bux here I wonder if they are any good ?

IMO I would be leery of off brand generators. My brother-in-law got a great deal a couple years back on 4 6K generators, none of them still work. The last one was not taken out of the box until this last power outage when my husband borrowed it to use at my mother-in-laws. It generated electricity for about 4 hours and then just stopped. The engine still ran but it did not generate electricity.

Fortunately, we have two generators that got us through 3 days without power. A 4400w we used during the day through a genswitch wired to our sub-panel and a 800w we used just to run the tanks overnight (it is much quieter) the 800w was barely enough to run three tanks, circulation and heaters only, but did the job.

Our 4400w is a Homelite which we have had 7 years with no problems and the 800w is a Honda which belonged to my Grandpa, then my dad and then myself, it is probably at least 20 years old and still going strong. Typically we use this one for longer camping trips to recharge the camper battery.

I just wanted to caution people about buying the cheap generators, while your experience may be different, from what I saw with the ones my brother-in-law bought what appeared to be a good deal ended up being a waste of money.

 

[jezzeaepi]

dnjan-
I hadnt thought of the dangers of my gfci tripping and turning my tank off while I was gone thanks!

DonW-
How often do you replace your probes? It seems like a lot of things kind of depend on these being accurate. Do you own two sets of all your probes so you can test them against one another?
Do you replace your heaters/pumps ever? or wait for them to go out? It seems like there could eventually be a problem with always letting them die.

 

[trido]

I disagree with both of these. Throwing away a perfectly good heater is just waste. Not counting to much on electronic and automation? Most people do this wether they realize it or not just in simple form. I dont think most folks have near enough electronics and redundancy or they skimp.Do electronics fail? Sure just like your tv and cell phone will some day die. If your cell phone dies you pick up a land line, you tv dies you go to the other room. You have redundancy. If your granny is in the hospital on life support, is she history if the power goes out? Of course not they have redundancy. Your tank is the same, its a life support system for its inhabitants right down to the bacteria in the rock.
Do you need to monitor and automate absolutly everything? Well of course not, but keeping redundancy in the basic life support systems WILL save your tank someday.

JMO
Don

I cant argue with alot of what you state here. I have automation myself, It is great for taking some of the chore out of tank mainainance. I have a Kalk reactor, Calcium reator etc.. AS far as redundancy. I have two heaters, My ATO float switch has a secondary incase the first fails, my tank room has four seperate circuits etc...I should have given examples for my reasoning.

On another Forums board a person has recently had a catastrophic tank crash due to automation. This person had a controller for their heaters and chiller. Unfortunatley, this person splashed water on the controller causing it to read the tank at a default temp of 20F. While at work the controller turned the heaters on and raised the tank temp to 104F. This person never considered using the thermostat on the heaters as a secondary fail safe in case the controller failed.
I feel that alot of reefers buy controllers and probes to make reef keeping less work. I cant blame them, but at the same time they put all of their stock in the controller and quit testing and even checking simple things because the tank practically runs itself. This, I believe will eventually lead to a crash unless you think ahead and replace probes and controllers before they fail completely. As you said above, REDUNDANCY is the key. As well as dilligence of daily upkeep.

 

[jezzeaepi]

I recently had a major problem with my controller as well. Luckily it failed in the way that didnt fry my tank, it just shut the heaters off because it thought it was 104. With mine it was the temp probe that went out.

 

[DonW]

dnjan-
DonW-
How often do you replace your probes? It seems like a lot of things kind of depend on these being accurate. Do you own two sets of all your probes so you can test them against one another?
Do you replace your heaters/pumps ever? or wait for them to go out? It seems like there could eventually be a problem with always letting them die.

I dont throw away perfectly working probes heater or pumps. My tank is seemless. I did recently loose a controller when we had the power outages. Other than the lights not being able to crawl up and down the wall you cant tell the difference.
I dont believe that using a single aquarium controler like a aquacontroller, is a good idea. There is no real flexability for redundancy.
I also dont think automation makes owning a tank any less work. You still have to do every thing that is required to maintain a healthy reef. Other than dosing everything else is the same, but thats what ca reactors are for.
I dont worry about my probes, I calibrate them monthly when I clean my sump (manually). I also dont alow them to have a wide range of control. If one of my temp probes starts reading 104 and the other two read 80 the automation system is not going to concider the wacky reading, it just ignores it and takes that probe offline.
Its not hard to set up a good system it just takes alot of creativity and learning from the mistakes that get posted here every day.

Don