Bum chiller or just high of expectations?

[Jeff]

Hello I just hooked up my 1/3 hp delta star chiller and it does not seem to be working as well as I had expected.

My tank is about 230g of water volume with about 800gph going through the chiller.

Today it was 90 in my house and with my lights off all day my chiller was not able to keep the temperature down to 81, even with fans and ice.

I know that the chiller is working because the tank water temp is 82.9 (would still be climbing without the ice) while the chiller outflow temp is 81.9. Is that about right performance wise for these chillers or is something up with my unit?

Dr. Fosters and Smiths specs on this chiller say it should be able to pull up to 250g 15degrees below ambient air temperature. Are they way off on this and I should have bought a 1/2 hp to be able to keep my lights on on hot days or should I have my chiller checked out?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[Scooterman]

seems like that is too much gph through the chiller but I may be wrong on that. I think you should have enough size but the thing may not be working right, I'd do some calling about it.

 

[Jeff]

GPH should be OK, they recomend 600-1200 GPH. The chiller is also new but it has be sitting for allmost 2yr. I don't know if freon goes bad by just siting?

 

[Scooterman]

yea it should be ok, is it cycling on & off frequently or is it running constantly?

 

[Jeff]

No cycling, just contant on but not able to cool the tank down very much. I've also written aqualogic but I sure I won't hear back from them until next week.

 

[tamarindthai]

keep condensor grill well vent or extra fan blow through hard,,might help while you are waiting for the answer.

 

[Jeff]

Yea I thought about throwing an extra fan on the chiller grills. I have some extra fans laying around so I will try that too. Thanks Dang

 

[jsmkmavity]

are you sure the compressor is running and not just the unit fan? the compressor has a distinct hum when running.

 

[Jeff]

I would say the compressor is definitely running I can hear the hum and the fan in the chiller is actually pretty quiet, though I have four other fans going. It is also blowing out heat which I assume it wouldn't do without the compressor working.

So it does sound like something is wrong with this chiller right? At noon today it is 80 in my house and it is going to get up to 90 before the day is over. Today, just like the last two days, my chiller is going to come on around 1 and will not shut off until around midnight.

 

[mattseattle]

Well, I will tell you how my chiller works and you can go from there. I have a 1/4 HP JBJ chiller on my tank with a mag 5 feeding it. I have about 150 gallons of total water volume with 2 x 250w metal halides, 2 T5's and a Sequence Dart and Barricuda that contribute to the heat in the water. I have my chiller set to come on at 79.8 degrees and then it will cool the tank water down to 77.8. It takes about an hour and 15 to 30 minutes for it to go from 79.8 to 77.8 the past few days.

I did an experiment once with my chiller because I thought it was taking too long to cool things off. I put the intake and the return of the chiller in a 5 gallon pail of water. The room temperature was about 70 degrees. The water temperature started out at 90 degrees and it cooled the water off to 32 degrees in about 1.5 hours. You could try something like this with you chiller to see if it can cool adequately.

You said your chiller is 1/3 hp? so it should be able to cool comparable to mine on the the water volume you have.

 

[Scooterman]

seems like your chiller is working if it comes on and off, you need to make sure it has plenty of air movement through the chiller front & back, it it still takes all day to cool then you can do like Matt and test it with a small amount of water, you may indeed need a larger chiller, another thing running a chiller that long in a room that already is 80 & then 90 later that is way too hot to get your water cooler even with a larger chiller, try and run you a/c unit cooler and see if it helps.

 

[Jeff]

The problem that I am having is that it is clearly working, compressor on, heat coming out, outflow marginally cooler than inflow, but is seems to be actually barely chilling. I also have good flow running through it and it should be able to cool my tank. Though new the thing has been in storage for two years so I am SOL on warranty. How can I diagnose what’s wrong from here? The only thing that I can think of would be if it wasn't fully charged at Aqualogic, but I highly doubt that. Where should I take it to have someone look at it? Tomorrow I should be able to get ahold of Aqualogic but I don't know what additional info they can give me.

BTW my tank is a 215 with 3 250hqi, 3 100w t-5, Iwaki 30, and 2 tunze 6100. I am using a aqauclear 901 @900gph to run water through the chiller at 0 head.

 

[Jeff]

Matt, how warm was your room temperature when you timed how long your chiller took. Unfortunately I live in an older log cabin with windows that wont fit a AC. I also rent so no option for large holes.

 

[mattseattle]

At the time of the 5 gallon bucket experiment it was probably about 70 - 75 degrees so not that hot.

For the other test it was yesterday and it was probably 80 degrees in that room.

I think there is a 2 degree variable from my incoming water temp to the outgoing water temp on my chiller. I measured that using an infared thermometer with a plastic glass. Not super scientific.

 

[les]

Jeff,
You're chiller sounds like its working properly. These chillers only have a 1 degree temperature drop through them at design conditions. Also, Dr Foster's is right. A 1/3 HP chiller will be able to keep 250 gallons of water 15 degrees below ambient temperature. What they are not informing you about is that it can only keep it that low if there is no other heat source within the tank. Any mag drive pump will dump large amounts of heat into the water. Those Tunzes you run also can boil water in to small of a system. I would consider turning the Tunzes off during the hottest part of the day if need be.
What would be more helpfull in diagnosing this prpblem is for you to take some temperature readings. Using the same thermometer, monitor the temp for 2 hours with everything on, including lights. If we can get the total water temp rise we can determine how much you're lacking in terms of chiller size.

The problem that I am having is that it is clearly working, compressor on, heat coming out, outflow marginally cooler than inflow, but is seems to be actually barely chilling.

BTW my tank is a 215 with 3 250hqi, 3 100w t-5, Iwaki 30, and 2 tunze 6100. I am using a aqauclear 901 @900gph to run water through the chiller at 0 head.

 

[Jeff]

I don't think that I would be willing to see just how high my tank can go. I keep my tank at 80 normally, today with the halides off all day and with the chiller, ice and fans it only got up to 83 while my house temp got up to an unbearable 91.

Are you positive that chillers only have a 1 degree drop?

I don't know if DrF&S are right or not, but when I bought my set up the fish store that I bought it from, and other reefers that I talked to all convinced me that a 1/2hp would be overkill and not just adequate.

When I call Aqualogic tomorrow if they tell me that the chiller is working to specs, I am going to chew them a new one. How can they expect people not to have lights and pumps? When I bought it I would have gladly paid an extra 300 to get a 1/2 hp rather than having to buy it later.

It is a heat wave all across the western US. Surely someone out there has a setup close to mine without house AC.

 

[mattseattle]

Like I said mine is roughly a 1 - 2 degree drop from input to output water. It's not a huge drop as you don't want a quick drop in the change of your temperature in your tank. I guess it would probably be a huge drop if you used a 1 hp chiller on a 55 gallon tank or something.

To me I would think your chiller would be doing a better job than it is. Honestly, I can't say for sure as my room has not reached 90 degrees. I keep my tank in the basement area of our house so it's cooler down there than upstairs. We also have A/C in our house.

 

[Scooterman]

Jeff,
You're chiller sounds like its working properly. These chillers only have a 1 degree temperature drop through them at design conditions. Also, Dr Foster's is right. A 1/3 HP chiller will be able to keep 250 gallons of water 15 degrees below ambient temperature

Jeff the ambient temperature of 91 is very high & if you include everything else I'm thinking this statement above may be right on. I would call the manufacturer & see what they tell you, be prepared to give them the same information as you have here, maybe they will help you with this problem. Make sure the unit is clean & in open air because it will produce heat & just recycle it back into the tank. Please inform us of what they tell you.

 

[les]

Ok people, there is no need to rant and rave at the manufacture about this. Let’s look at it from a mathematical point of view.
There are available from these types of chillers 12,000 BTU’s per 1 horse power. A BTU is a British Thermal Unit, this is the amount of energy it takes to raise or lower 1 gallon of water 1 degree F in 1 hour. So, for your 250 gallon system, you would need to have 3750 BTU’s to maintain a vessel 15 degrees below ambient temperature. If you add in other heat sources such as pumps, lights and so on you will actually need more cooling. A fairly good rule of thumb is to figure the amount of watts your pumps use. If you have a 50 watt mag drive pump it is not unreasonable to assume that 50% of that energy will disperse to the surrounding water in the form of heat. Start adding multiple pumps and power heads and it really adds up in a hurry. By the way, watts can be converted to BTU’s by multiplying your watts by 3.412. (3.412 watts per BTU).
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, magnetic driven pumps are a waste of energy. They only use about 50% of the power for moving water; the rest is dumped into the water in the form of heat. I have seen those Tunze units overheat a 90 gallon tank with a chiller in a very short amount of time.
You may want to invest in an additional smaller chiller to keep for backup/assistance. It’s not very often these temperatures are reached here so a used one would be fine. The bottom line is that your chiller is to small for your system. It seems to be working properly and not keeping up. If there is some way you can move it out of the room with the tank that would help some also.

 

[Scooterman]

No ranting about the manufacturer, I see absolutely no reason not to call & inquire about his issues regardless if the outcome is the same, they may suggest other alternatives. Also I think he is using an External pump, only the streams which I personally haven't see & increase in Temp. when using them, yours may be of rare circumstances. I'd Imagine the room temp. & lighting is producing the most heat, maybe trying to isolate each device to see if you get a drop in Temp. would be helpful.