Calfo Manifold Flow Rate Question

[ebayes11]

After extensively researching the CLM concept, I've begun my design work. The problem I am encountering is that while I can quantify the expected flow rates, I cannot qualify them. That is, I cannot determine whether my x gph per nozzle is going to be sufficient for the livestock I expect to keep. That is where, I hope, the pro's can weigh in with their extensive experience.
What I plan is the following:

This picture shows the first CLM option. This one incorporates two individual octagonal manifolds each with 12 outlets (8 of which will be active at one time). Each loop is going to be powered by a Sequence Barracuda pump. I've calculated a conservative head loss of 6 feet, which gives me a total output of 3500 gph for a total of 438 gph per outlet. I will be going with 1/5" pvc with either 3/4" or 1" outlets. The 438 gph is on the low side for that sized outlet, but I think I could be okay.

The second option is to use one large manifold around the circumference of the tank. This would be powered by a Sequence Hammerhead and have 16-18 outlets (14 of which would be used at a time). This route would see a head loss of 7 feet giving me an output of about 5000 gph total volume or about 350 gph per outlet. For the larger diameter outlets, this seems a bit slow, so I may have to go with the 1/2" outlets to get the desired velocity.

Now for the other tank parameters. I plan on creating a Pacific back reef slope tank with two large rock islands (as shown in the picture). I would like to have some Acropora, Pocillopora, and Montipora up on the top of the islands, and taper down to some Seriatopora or similar lower down on the islands. The bottom of the islands would have a few LPS and perhaps some zoos in the sheltered areas. The tank will have a shallow sand bed and be lit by overpowered T5s.

Given these tank parameters, which option will best suit my tank? I want to ensure I have adequate circulation at all levels of the tank, and I want to make sure my corals are happy. Any input you guys can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Welcome to RF!!! either way will give you adequate flow. 2 barracudas would be very good flow with the config you have drawn out. It seems you thought this out well, I was going to doa Calfo manifold myself but when Opportunity knocked I got my tank drilled. One consideration you may want watch is your sandbed. Having that much flow could present a major sand storm. that would be my only concern.

 

[Murfman]

IIRC, with the CLM you don't lose any head pressure so your flow should be whatever the output flow of the pump is.

When you design your CLM, your total intake, into the pump, should be greater than your output. If it's not, then you stand the chance of cavitation in the pump and blowing air bubbles into the display. I ran 3 1" inlets to my DART and 3 3/4" returns split into 6.

 

[ebayes11]

My pump output will not be the output of the manifold, as I will have a height difference to overcome as well. As for the no frictional losses through the manifold, that seems weird, but I'll have to think about that more later. I will have a 2" bulkhead feeding each pump, so I shouldn't have any cavitation issues - hopefully.

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

[class clown]

I'd like to read more about this calfo manifold referenced. Can you provide a link or two where I could read more about.

 

[ebayes11]

class clown : http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/short.htm

Murfman, yeah I just got what you are saying - no vertical head loss because it is a closed loop. But I would expect that I would have frictional flow loss through the manifold, right?

 

[davidabrown66]

After extensively researching the CLM concept, I've begun my design work. The problem I am encountering is that while I can quantify the expected flow rates, I cannot qualify them. That is, I cannot determine whether my x gph per nozzle is going to be sufficient for the livestock I expect to keep. That is where, I hope, the pro's can weigh in with their extensive experience.
What I plan is the following:

This picture shows the first CLM option. This one incorporates two individual octagonal manifolds each with 12 outlets (8 of which will be active at one time). Each loop is going to be powered by a Sequence Barracuda pump. I've calculated a conservative head loss of 6 feet, which gives me a total output of 3500 gph for a total of 438 gph per outlet. I will be going with 1/5" pvc with either 3/4" or 1" outlets. The 438 gph is on the low side for that sized outlet, but I think I could be okay.

The second option is to use one large manifold around the circumference of the tank. This would be powered by a Sequence Hammerhead and have 16-18 outlets (14 of which would be used at a time). This route would see a head loss of 7 feet giving me an output of about 5000 gph total volume or about 350 gph per outlet. For the larger diameter outlets, this seems a bit slow, so I may have to go with the 1/2" outlets to get the desired velocity.

Now for the other tank parameters. I plan on creating a Pacific back reef slope tank with two large rock islands (as shown in the picture). I would like to have some Acropora, Pocillopora, and Montipora up on the top of the islands, and taper down to some Seriatopora or similar lower down on the islands. The bottom of the islands would have a few LPS and perhaps some zoos in the sheltered areas. The tank will have a shallow sand bed and be lit by overpowered T5s.

Given these tank parameters, which option will best suit my tank? I want to ensure I have adequate circulation at all levels of the tank, and I want to make sure my corals are happy. Any input you guys can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Hey ebayes11, not to barge in, but I run a similar design on my tank. I run one manifold around the top. I use one Barracuda pump on my 48x24x30 in 150 gallon tank. I also have another CL under the rockwork with an Ampmaster which helps flow around the internal rockwork, and suspend detritus and other crap until it hits the overflows, and my advice is to have no more than 6 outlets if 3/4" is being used per pump. This provides about 600-700 gph per nozzle. The only head loss being how many T's and 90 degree turns there are, but I would expect almost 4000 gal/hr. There's a calculator out there somewhere for actually calculating head loss for each here:
http://reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

As far as flow goes in real life, there's enough flow from one outlet to gently reach the other side of my tank which is 48 inches long. It's too strong if angling down on anything under 18 inches from my loc line outputs.

Hope this helps,

-David

 

[ebayes11]

David,

What size pipe do you run on your manifold, and what is the diameter of your outlets?

 

[davidabrown66]

David,

What size pipe do you run on your manifold, and what is the diameter of your outlets?

From the Barracuda:

1 1/2" up to the top of the tank, and I use a 1 1/2" tee that's necked down at either end of the tee that's used for the actual loop to 1". I then used barbed fittings to attach 1" hose to the manifold which also had barbed ends. So, 4 barbed fittings, a pair for each side. This was so I didn't have to use additional 90 degree pvc fittings up and over the tank, and through my canopy, and back down to the top of the tank. This would have made it a lot harder to detach and remove if needed, and I didn't lose water flow from additional head loss. I then used 1" tee'd fittings that were sized 3/4" at the discharge end and female threaded for loc lines (I didn't have to do anything on these tee'd fittings, they came sized that way).

So, the manifold itself is 1" pvc and surrounds the top of the tank with pvc, and the rear of the manifold in the rear of the tank almost comes together, but the barbed fittings from each end of the manifold attach to 1" hose, and both ends connect to either side of the tee'd fitting which has a 1" union on either end of the tee, and then barbed ends. The tee'd fitting sits along the backside of my tank about 3/4's of the way to the top of my tank. The unions help with removing the manifold if I need to. Both unions at either end of the tee can be removed just leaving you with two hose ends the lead to the manifold. You would then just open the canopy, and remove the manifold so the hosed ends just slide through the back side of the canopy and out. Very slick.

If you have a canopy like I do with access in the back, you'll want to measure and glue carefully so the manifold fits within the interior canopy framing prior to using PVC cement. You'll also want to get creative on how to secure it so it does not move. Also carefully map out where your nozzles are placed so they won't hit each other or counter act each other once loc lines installed, because they are much longer after that. Example, would be if you have one installed just before the bend in the manifold, and one just after the bend. Once you have loc lines installed they would probably touch at the tips and much harder to manuever, and might even counter act the current intended.

Also, I have (2) 1 1/2" BH fittings going from the back of my tank into 2" pvc, and then a 2" BV and then a 2" union that's necked down to 1 1/2" at the water inlet side of the pump. Each BH fitting on the interior side of the tank is tee'd as well just in case.

OK, I guess I should've just PM'd you with what I did, but hopefully you get the jist. PM me if you want pictures...or anyone for that matter. The Calfo manifold is one of the best things I've done. Very easy to change water flow as corals grow, or needs change.

-David

-David

 

[class clown]

class clown : http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/short.htm

Much appreciated --interesting stuff. I know matts125 has a calfo manifold setup like that, so may want to ask that he chime in too and provide feedback too.

 

[davidabrown66]

I'll post some pics of my "Calfo manifold" implementation this weekend. I still need to take pictures, and haven't posted pics here before so can someone tell me what the size limit on pics being posted? Thanks!

-David