Carlson Surge Devices?

[Maxx]

Hey everyone,

We have some very smart people who visit here, so I thought I'd post up my questions/thoughts here for input.

I'm looking to test two Carlson Surge Devices, (CSD's for short), on my 58 gallon tank. If they work out the way I want/hope, I'll use them on a 120 gallon in wall tank I'm planning for the future.

Has anyone used or built a CSD for their home tank? I saw several at Rods-Reef's being used on his tanks and thats what really got me thinking about these.

For those who dont know what a CSD is:

http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/SeaScope/v13_sumr/surge.htm
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Reprints/MFM/v11_aug96/simple_surge.htm

A variation of this is the Borneman Surge device:

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/surge_device.html

Pros of a CSD:

Inexpensive to make
Inexpensive to run
Constant velocity and quantity of surge. Your filling pump might get old and slow down, but that will only increase the duration between surges, bit velocity or size of the surge.
Depending on pump choice used to fill surge device, little or less heat added to aquarium.


Cons to using a CSD

Noise
Salt Spray from bubbles caused by surge.
Need some height above the tank to place them.
They aint pretty to look at.

From what I've been able to read, the devil is in the details when building these. Very small things can make a huge difference in how well the CSD operates if at all.

So any pointers or info that I can grab from people will be much appreciated.

Nick

 

[Maxx]

I did spend some time playing with Microsoft's Paint, and made a few drawings of two of the more updated versions of the CSD.


First up is Ver 2.0

Mods were made in an attempt to reduce the amount of bubbles caused by the siphon sucking in air during the surge. A seperate siphon break tube was added to allow water to fall out of both ends of the tube faster, and 45 degree cuts were made to the bottom end of the siphon tube itself to assist in breaking siphon faster. According to "The Reef Aquarium Vol 3" the do work to reduce the amount of bubbles injected to the tank.

Nick

 

[Maxx]

Ver 3.0 is also mentioned in TRA Vol 3. But it doesnt mention if this version reduces bubbles or just looks cooler than the first and second versions.

Nick

 

[Rod Buehler]

I have used carlsons many times, but all that I use now days are the borneman style.. much much more reliable, and less bubbles (on the 1" model anyway)

 

[DonW]

I made a nice and nice looking one for a friend. Essentially just a toilet with a modern fill valve assembly. The tank was released with a solenoid and float switch. Worked flawlessly and was acrylic wrapped in oak. Looked like the old fashioned toilet tank.

Don

 

[Maxx]

Thanks for the replies guys...

Rod,
Your surge devices were what really got me thinking about this. Can you give me some more specifics regarding the ones you use in the shop?

Don,
Your's sound pretty interesting as well. Can you show/describe how you made it? Could you also give me some details on it?

Nick

 

[DonW]

Basic, you have a acrylic box with a hole in the bottom for a toilet tank valve assembly. Use a pump to fill it just like the water pressure of your house. Add a float switch and solenoid to flush it each time its full. The valves come with overflow protection already so no need to worry. Just a continously flushing toilet. Add some wood to make it pretty. Heck, if you could care less how it looks just use a toilet tank. Make sure you have the room in the display for the surge.

Don

 

[Maxx]

What I was thinking of doing was making an oversized overflow drain, and allowing room in the sump for the added water. Is the surge going to be faster than the water can drain out?

I was thinking 1 inch surge outlets and a 1.5 inch overflow drain. I was wanting two surge tanks, on firing from each long side of the tank.

Nick

 

[NaH2O]

Tagging along...

 

[Rod Buehler]

There are soooo many variables that come into play with surges/overflows/sump size/pipe size/fill rates/surge volume/ number of surges/timing of surges.. but tthey are all pretty easily dealt with. If your 1.5" pipe will not keep up and water rises over the top, you can lower the height of the stand pipe which lowers the initial water level in the tank, which will give more room in the tank for the surges to come in... The water laevel may rise to the top, but the 1.5" pipe should be able to catch up before the next surge comes in. If it does not, you can slow the fill rate of the surges so they dont fire as often, and then the 1.5 should catch up. If you can use 2", I would. On my 2x2 cube, I use salt buckets (x2) as surges, and I have a 2" drain (PVC with holes drilled as a screen). The holes are about 2.5-3" below the tank rim. If both surges fire at the same time, the water will rise to its limit, but they dont always fire at the same time. On this tank the surges are filled slowly ( Maybe 200 gph (or less) ) . I have soo many surges (23) running here, its kind of hard to remember oll of the specs. I have never sat down with a stop watch to time things. I am not sure how much this helped.. If you have any specific questions, fire away . Ill try to answer when I can

 

[shallowreef]

Rod,

Aren't you also on Zoosrus? I can't seem to get on there anymore.

 

[shallowreef]

Also i have seen this type of surge device used at one of my LFS and it works great. He has a 45 gallon surge on a 500. So i would imagine that what ever you decide to do i wouldn't go over 10% of your tanks gallon size when it comes to filling your surge device or else you will have a flood.

 

[Rod Buehler]

Rod,

Aren't you also on Zoosrus? I can't seem to get on there anymore.

Yes, I still stop by there once in awhile, but the board (at least the NIRA board) has died. I didnt care for some of the vendors constantly posting pics of their items for sale, and from what a lot of other people have told me they didnt care for the personality of the new mods in the NIRA forum. the main site still gets some traffic, but not as much as it used to.

 

[shallowreef]

Well then i guess its a good thing for me. I mainly stay here because its a lot more useful. Matt from Sho tank is also on here (mm949). He too used to be on Zoosrus. Anyways... what do you use to build your surge devices? Do you use tanks or like a 5 gallon bucket?

 

[Rod Buehler]

Yeah, I pretty much hang in the CMAS forum on RC, the clownfish forum on RC, and here.. Not a whole lot of time for posting these days.

I know of Matt, Infact he was going to be the first store that I was going to offer my food to when I was thinking of selling it to the local stores. He seems pretty knoledgable, although we have different views on many different things.. Many ways to do this hobby and they can all work

I have them built from just about anything.. Small waste paper baskets, salt buckets, 10 gal tanks, 20 gal tanks divided into a "refusurge" (half refugiums, half surges. 40 gallon tanks divided into multiple surges.. ....

 

[DonW]

Maxx,
The one my buddy runs is set up pretty cool even though its on a 55. He lives in a studio so noise is a issue. The surge acts as the return pump during the day. A dpdt relay and a timer either turns on the surge pump or the regular return pump depending on the time. Only one or the othe can run at one time using the dptd relay. He did have to get a external skimmer so that the surge would not raise and lower the water level. Also we cut the durso's down so that we could get a full 4 gallon surge. This is the only circulation this tank has and it seems to be plenty.

Don