Centropyge Argi

[Snowboarda42]

My plan is/was to have the sitter do water changes in accordance to the levels of Nitrate, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Copper. I plan on showing her how to do so, and then keep the Copper level at the right level by either diluting it with water change water, or increasing it by adding more copper.

Now that you mention it, I do have a friend who has a 240G reef tank in the area that I might be able to convince to keep the tank at her house while I'm gone. I think that would put me at ease more than having someone who hasn't even tasted saltwater in her life take care of it. At least I'll have a backup plan...

 

[krisfal]

What a dilemma! If it were me, I think I would see if you could arrange plan B. Water testing can be very intimidating. With something as critical as testing and maintaining the copper levels I think I would look for someone who has some experience with testing, who would hopefully recognize the possibility of having made an error in the procedure and double check prior to adjusting the water based on a reading that seems unusual. I also think it would be less stressful for a sitter with experience in this hobby.

Good luck, you have a beautiful fish there, I hope it can be cured of whatever is ailing it.

 

[Snowboarda42]

I just ordered a bottle of Cupramine and a Salifert Kit, it should be here in a couple of days and I'll start it the day it gets here and let you know how things progress.

Lee,

Not including water changes, will the copper precipitate out in anyway? That is, will I need to add more each day or so, or will it stay at the set level of .5mg/L? No carbon will be on this tank either.

 

[leebca]

This formula of copper is one of the least reactive copper to carbonates. In a QT, it will remain fairly constant in concentration. But, it should be checked a few hours after the second addition to verify the copper is 'in the effective zone.' A very small portion of the the medication will complex with some of the carbonates in the water.

Adding back water to compensate for evaporation should be good enough to hold it steady, but every other day I'd recommend a check on the copper concentration. If the pH and/or alkalinity varies much, that will effect the copper concentration to some degree. In the latter case, a daily check/test should be good enough.

My personal experience is to find that it holds steady 50% of the time. But, best not to assume anything. Whomever you trust this to, should talk to you before making any major addition or change. You'd like to review the test results and suggest a repeat of the test should something seems to be very different.

 

[Snowboarda42]

Update:

I got a bottle of Cupamine, and a Salifert Test Kit. After reading the directions, I added 14 drops to my 10G QT tank. Cruiser is hiding behind one of the PVC pipes, I believe he's getting used to the copper. I'm going to test the water later today, and in another 48 Hours I'll add another 14 drops and test again. I'm trying for .5mg/L.

I have a few questions about using this product:

1. If I plan on doing 5G water changes every other day or as needed, whenever I do one, would I add another 14 drops? My math behind this is that every 10G you add 28 drops total to get ~.5mg/L. So, if I'm going to only do 5G, I'd add 14.

2. Should I do the water change, then add the 14 drops to the tank? Or add it to the water change water when I'm mixing the salt and whatnot?

3. Should I test the water change water for copper prior to adding it to the tank? Or just assume that I'm adding .5mg/L, and test the QT tank water once the water change is done?

4. Is there a minimum that I should have the copper level at in this tank? Will MV survive above .5mg/L, or is there some give/take to the needed level?

On a side note, I'm thinking of grabbing one of each of these:
CLICKY
CLICKY AGAIN
However, I don't know how they will react to the copper in the water, I might PM Boomer about this one. Reason I want them is because I'm gone for 24Hour shifts and in the mornings I usually don't have time to test the water, so for peace of mind it might be nice to just be able to look and see...

BTW, Lee, thanks for all your help thus far on this problem, as well as your patience and understanding for me and all my questions!

 

[leebca]

1. Yes. During the entire treatment you will keep the copper reading between 0.3 and 0.5 ppm. When you add water, the final QT water must contain the correct amount of copper.

2. You can go either way. For the sake of the fish, it would be better if the fish physiology 'saw' no copper shift in its surrounding water. However, I've done it both ways and can't say one is better than the other. Logically, for the sake of making sure you don't give the parasite a chance, you might lean towards putting the copper in the water change before adding the exchange water into the QT. However you make up your water (the container, mixer, tubing, etc. you use), once exposed to copper, cannot be used again unless cleaned rigorously. This is the down side to adding copper to the water before it used for the exchange.

3. Once you've established your addition is giving the proper copper concentration results, no further check is necessary. Be sure to do that first verification. Note that 'drop' can vary quite a bit in quantity depending on the angle the dropper is held. Try to hold the container or dropper in exactly the same orientation when you deliver a drop so that you have consistency.

4. See 1. above. 0.3 ppm is the lowest I would go. No need to go higher than 0.5 ppm. Above 0.6 may harm the fish.

In general, those products are nearly worthless. You're better off with dip sticks and if anything is shown on the dip stick then you must do a regular test kit test.

Hopefully your fish will start to trust you again since you won't be catching it and giving it dips for the next few weeks!

I'm here to help and answer questions!

 

[Snowboarda42]

Update:

The little guy is looking great! (Knock on wood). I just got back from work this morning, doesn't look like he has anything whatsoever stuck to the sides of him. He's had no problems eating whatever I put in his tank, and I think he's back to trusting me since he started to come back over to the glass when I walk by. Pretty neat IMO. 10 More days of Cupramine treatment, and then another month of QT observation. This process sure does take long lol

-Elliott

 

[NC2WA]

Good news..Hopefully he will remain looking great while you are on your trip to B.C..

BTW, do you (or Lee) know whether I could if I could keep a Cherub AND a Flame Angel in 375 gallon tank?? I am looking to add some "color" to my tank.

Thanks
Kirk

 

[leebca]

Most Flames have an attitude problem. IMO of all the dwarf Angels it is one of the more bossy ones. However, in that size aquarium, it should be fine -- in fact if you aquascape it well, that display can keep 3 or 4 dwarf Angels. Just add the Flame last.

 

[Snowboarda42]

Update -

1 Week down, one week to go. I got back from Whistler Bike park last night, the conditions were similar to that of Seattle - Rain, Rain, and oh, more rain. End of the day that we rode I was cold, wet, covered in mud, and happy. It was so much fun.

Anyways, the little guy looks to be doing great, I did a WC right before we left too. He's still eating thankfully, and I don't see any sort of parasites or other abnormalities on him. The Cupramine still looks to be working great.

 

[NC2WA]

Elliott,

Great news !!! Glad everything went well during the trip.

 

[Snowboarda42]

Thanks!

Hey Lee,

What's the best way to get the Cu++ out of the tank once the treatment is over? I read that you can run carbon (all I have is little bags to put in the tank) or do water changes. Would you simply go and do a 90-100% WC? Or do a bunch of smaller ones?

 

[Herefishyfishy]

I have experience with this Q.
Wait till entirely done with treatment then save your carbon. Empty the tank 100% and after is is scrubbed dry, clean all the joints with vinegar or muriatic acid if you are familiar with using it. Rinse again and it should be 99.99% copper free.

 

[leebca]

As Mike implied, the use of carbon or any copper absorbing material/absorbent isn't enough to make the tank safe for invertebrates.

If you will be just using the tank for marine fish, the dump and rinse is effective enough. If you plan to use the tank to quarantine and/or to hold invertebrates, a chemically aggressive cleaning will be needed. You'll get more detailed information here: Tank Cleanup Procedures.

 

[Snowboarda42]

Sorry, I should have been a little more specific.

I'm still going to be keeping the little guy in the tank for another month, but I need to get the Cu++ out of it. How should I go about doing it? And what should I do for the sponge filter?

My thoughts were, get a holding container, match SG, pH, etc. except for Cu++ to the QT water, catch the little guy, put him in that container, do a 100% water change, don't rinse or squeeze the sponge filter (there will be a tiny bit of Cu++ residue), refill the QT, and put him back in.

Does that sound ok?

 

[leebca]

Now I get it. I wouldn't move the fish around. Just makes for more stress.

Just treat the water with activated carbon for 4 days. Throw it away and put in more activated carbon for a couple of weeks. You can use different copper absorbents, too, like the one Seachem makes. Just treat the water and perform a couple of 40% water changes.

The sponge doesn't appreciably hold on to copper to bother the fishes. Keep it going to help with the biological filter.

 

[Snowboarda42]

I found a HOB filter, its a small one for up to 10G. It has carbon cartridges in it. I'll leave it until Sunday (4 days) and change it and do a 40% Water change as well, then test for copper.

 

[NC2WA]

Elliott,

So how is the little guy doing?

 

[Snowboarda42]

He's doing great. He's still eats great, and is back to breathing normally. No more twitching as well. The cupramine cleared up whatever it was he had (most likely Marine Velvet). I was pretty sure he was going to kick the bucket while I was waiting for delivery on the cupramine.

 

[NC2WA]

You are lucky. Several years ago, I had an Auriga Butterfly that I introducted into a 90g that eventually had Marine Velvet. It wiped out my entire tank included a very large maroon clownfish that I had for 5 years. The marin velvet spread quickly to the other fish and within 3-5 days all the fish were gone. My wife cried for a day as she was attached to the maroon clownfish.

Glad to hear you had a good ending. I plan on having a multiple centropyge angelfish in my tank. I plan on getting mulitple QT tanks up and running.

Kirk