Closed Loop

[Saltyfish]

So I am not really happy with the flow in my 300 gallon. Being that it is 8 feet long and 2 feet wide it almost makes it impossible to get the flow I want.

Since my over flow is at one end of the tank (2 foot wide end) I am limited on just how many and what size pipes I can add in there.

I do have an Oceans Motions 8 way I could hook up also.

Anyone have an ideas on a way to increase flow without kicking up the sand? I would like to get rid of the three K7's I have in the tank if possible. I might need one on center just to make the water crash since it is so long.

If I used a pressure based pump would I still need to use the rating of 10 to 30 times water turn over?

So this is what I was thinking and you tell me what you think...

Mag 12 for my return / sump only because I only have 1 - 1 1/2 pipe in my overflow for my sump

Then drill out one of the 3/4 returns to 1" and use for suction on a closed loop. Add a 1 1/2 return through the overflow up to the OM 8way Version 1 or Version 3 drum, I have both. Most likely 3 because my tank is so long I want to make it go half and half at all times.

The pump I would be using is a Pan World 250PS rated at 1900 gph pressure pump. The Pan World pump has 1" in and 1" out

I would put 1 return in each corner and point towards the middle of the tank at a 45 degree angle.

I would then add 4 more returns in the center of the tank on the two braces. I would add 4 Revolutions Version 12 to these returns.

All of this would generate 2900 gph movement unless I kept 1 K7 and then it would be round 5600GPH not including the pressure.

I need help on this one, I wish I had a cube!

 

[returnofsid]

I hate to say it, but I think your best remedy is going to require emptying the tank...lol. Since it's acrylic, you can easily drill the bottom. I'd drill several holes, in the bottom, to allow plumbing to be stubbed up, throughout the tank, as outputs. These pipes could be hidden or disguised, by the strategic placement of live rock, and would allow you to direct flow in every possible direction, with the addition of loc-line.

This might require that larger drain holes be drilled too.

 

[tamarindthai]

what that mean is ,,,everything will be out of your tank and dry tank ,,for major drilling and plumimg set for close loop,and you will get the flow how you want it,,omm good luck James.

 

[Saltyfish]

that is the last thing I would ever do. I do not like drilling through the bottom of a large tank. I would rather come down from the top. That is why I want to use a pressure pump with the input and output 1" so it moves the water more.

 

[tamarindthai]

good for you ,,you're already figure that out what you are going todo,,

 

[Saltyfish]

I am just wondering if it going to be enough flow?

 

[CarlaW]

James, use this as a low benchmark if you are gonna do this. I turn my 300 over 28 times in an hour, and that is low for an sps tank. I have 2 Vortech MP40 in reserve that I haven't used yet. What you are talking about doing will require emptying the tank to do things right. I would seriously think about figuring out a way to start hiding powerheads, so you dont have to do any emptying.
Why don't you just get that bigger tank done right the first time and transfer evrything into it???
This is a large project that you have proposed, do some serious planning before you get to going on it. Write stuff down and get it on paper. Look into Sea Swirls, I have 4 of them on my 300 and they do a fine job. If you don't believe me, ask Michael, he has seen this thing, and the flow that I am getting.
Just trying to help.

 

[Myteemouse]

I have 7000 GPH flow in my 125
3600 GPH dart for the clossed loop. and two K-4's
I don't think your pump for your clossed loop will be enough to make a big differeance..
Bump it to a Hammerhead and you should be good with the OM 8way
I belive those have two ports open at once correct??
That will give you lots of flow.

 

[roscoe]

Look into getting 3-4 SS or WS James and attatch some of the new Tunze on them and I can gaurentee you will be very happy with the flow that they will create.

 

[Saltyfish]

James, use this as a low benchmark if you are gonna do this. I turn my 300 over 28 times in an hour, and that is low for an sps tank. I have 2 Vortech MP40 in reserve that I haven't used yet. What you are talking about doing will require emptying the tank to do things right. I would seriously think about figuring out a way to start hiding powerheads, so you dont have to do any emptying.
Why don't you just get that bigger tank done right the first time and transfer evrything into it???
This is a large project that you have proposed, do some serious planning before you get to going on it. Write stuff down and get it on paper. Look into Sea Swirls, I have 4 of them on my 300 and they do a fine job. If you don't believe me, ask Michael, he has seen this thing, and the flow that I am getting.
Just trying to help.

Charlie,

Since you have a 300 gallon what do you have set up?

I got good flow but the K7's are so heavy they start pointing down ever few days and there goes the sand. Once I move them back up there are dead spots where waste collect. There is no in the middle for these things. I was going to do some testing with other sizes but I figured why buy all these when I will be going to the 630 later on.I am about ready to suck the sand out and go with bare bottom tank. Well semi bare I will have the white creates and that is about it.

 

[CarlaW]

One thing, you are never ever going to get the flow absolutely perfect, and you will find that as your colonies grow out, that messes with your flow set up also, it is a never ending quest my friend.Anyways, here is what I have set up for flow.
My return pump is a Sequence Barracuda at 4500 gph, my skimmer is external, so I don't worry to much about flow thru the sump, I think people worry to much about that anyways. One of my closed loops is a Dart connected to 4 3/4" seaswirls and my other closed loop is an Iwaki 70 that has 3 outlets that are all pointed down below the rock work to clean out underneath the rock. I also have 2 old Tunze powerheads at 1600gph each that sit in the back corners and blow behind the rock structure.
Like I said, I also have 2 Vortech MP40 that are sitting on the shelf still wondering where they are going to go???? HTH

 

[roscoe]

I also have 2 Vortech MP40 that are sitting on the shelf still wondering where they are going to go???? HTH

Well Charlie you don't have to wonder any longer. Just throw them into my tank LOL. So that way you can wonder about other things LOL.

 

[CarlaW]

Well Charlie you don't have to wonder any longer. Just throw them into my tank LOL. So that way you can wonder about other things LOL.

Cash before carry my friend

 

[roscoe]

Cash before carry my friend

LOL I don't need anymore flow in my system. I also have a back up MP40w sitting on my shelf and wondering what to do with it LOL.

 

[CarlaW]

You know, you would figure that between the 2 of us we could figure out a place to put one these darn things!!!! Especially considering the size of our systems!!!!!
Do you have one working now roscoe?

 

[roscoe]

You know, you would figure that between the 2 of us we could figure out a place to put one these darn things!!!! Especially considering the size of our systems!!!!!
Do you have one working now roscoe?

I have 3 on my tank right now. Along with 3 Tunze. 2 mounted on a Wavy Sea and 1 at the lower back bottom corner to keep the back of the tank flushed of detritus.

 

[CarlaW]

What is the flow like about a foot from the vortech itself? I am thinking I could put them up high on opposite ends of my tank, but I have corals up high on both sides. I am afraid I will tear the skin off of them, among other things.

 

[nsamouroux]

Saltyfish, I'm curious after seeing your troubles with the k7 pumps since I'm in a very similar boat with my new system... I at first had similar problems with my four k8 pumps not staying where I aligned them (they would slowly point downwards, as you described) until I took them out to see what I could do about it. I realized that the little post wasn't all the way inserted into the pump housing which changed the center of gravity and made it not stay in place. You have to REALLY push the suction cup base into the pump, almost to the point where the pump is sitting less than 1/4" from the swivel ball / suction cup base. Once I realized that, I haven't had these pumps move at all from where I point them.

I was aiming for 50+ times turnover in the display when designing mine, but if you're having so many problems with your sand then I might be in for some annoyances other than silt clouds once I transfer everything. I decided not to do a closed loop because I wanted the tank to be completely silent with all equipment running downstairs, and wanted the energy savings plus very high flow of four Koralia 8 pumps to be able to accomodate whatever SPS I wanted if I steer away from a mixed reef. Since there's so many similarities between our two systems I'm going to keep an eye on this and use your experiences with your setup as a lab rat / sounding board for mine since I'm a month or so behind you in progress

 

[roscoe]

What is the flow like about a foot from the vortech itself? I am thinking I could put them up high on opposite ends of my tank, but I have corals up high on both sides. I am afraid I will tear the skin off of them, among other things.

The flow from a foot away is pretty gentle because it is so wide and dispersed. IMHO I say if there is anything that is 6'' or less from it then you might have a problem with it possibly causing tissue damage to SPS. Although I did have a MP40w on my 40b and I had corals that were a couple inches from the Vortech and it didn't harm it what so ever but I did have it running at only 60-75%. It is the constant forced flow that will damage your SPS where as the Vortech can be set to have random flow so it would be more than a rush of flow on and off and I think most SPS likes that anyhow. I think you would be fine with one on each side of your tank. Your SPS will love you for it.

 

[CarlaW]

The flow from a foot away is pretty gentle because it is so wide and dispersed. IMHO I say if there is anything that is 6'' or less from it then you might have a problem with it possibly causing tissue damage to SPS. Although I did have a MP40w on my 40b and I had corals that were a couple inches from the Vortech and it didn't harm it what so ever but I did have it running at only 60-75%. It is the constant forced flow that will damage your SPS where as the Vortech can be set to have random flow so it would be more than a rush of flow on and off and I think most SPS likes that anyhow. I think you would be fine with one on each side of your tank. Your SPS will love you for it.

Wow, that is good news. Have you ever run the thing at 100%? What setting did you have it on?
I have heard that they will suck air if placed to high, you ever find that?

Sorry James, I didn't mean to rip your thread, if you want us to move on we can.