Closed Loop

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1542 also clearly shows that IF a pump is used, it's used to push, not pull.

1270 specifically shows why a pump would push not pull. A pump wouldn't be able to pull the water up that far either, it would need to push.

1125 does specifically talk about an automobile water pump, which is a centrifigul pump, much closer in build than your example of a "piston pump." A centrifigul pump creates high pressure on the output and low pressure on the input side. Our aquarium pumps, which are typically impeller, create a high pressure on the output and a low pressure on the input side. The input side is then flooded by water replacing the removed water, in nature's way of equalizing the pressure.

I'm not comparing apples to oranges. I'm trying to show hydraulic dynamics, which a hydraulic engineer should understand already. Hydraulic dynamics will be very important to understand, in the designing of your closed loop system.

My whole point is that an over the back closed loop system can be designed correctly, with the pump below the water line. OR, it can be designed incorrectly, with the pump above the water line. If the pump is above the water line, it'll have to be designed with a way to prime it, in the event of a power outage. This is because it cannot prime itself, once it loses prime. The reason it can't prime itself is because it cannot SUCK water, well enough to replace the water it's pushing out. Melev has a couple great Over the back closed loop designs, that would work well for your tank. However, the pump would still need to be installed below the water line, and the pump would push, not pull water. As it pushes, the back end would naturally be flooded. You'd need to plumb it in a way to make sure you can keep the back end flooded. This need to keep the back end flooded is the whole reason why it's important to design a system based on the pump pushing, not pulling. If not designed, based on this premise, it just won't work properly.
 
James, design your closed loop, with the premise that pumps suck. Place your pump above the water line, hoping it'll suck water into itself, to prime itself. Keep in mind that you'll need to install a Priming Pot, http://www.nimbusponds.com/prod63.html as well. Hope the priming pot stays full, in the event of a power outage. However, in case it doesn't...make sure your priming pot has a "fill plug," so you can remove the plug and fill the priming pot, in order to prime the pump.

LOL and now I'm done....really....
 
Again you said pumps do not suck. You never said some pumps do not suck.
There are all sorts of pumps out there and the pumps we use for closed loops will suck so long as we keep the suction side shorter then the recommended use. The suck the water into the suction side and push it out through the discharge. In aquarium use since most people use them below the tank they are feed by gravity and do not need to suck but if install the pump above the tank it would have to suck.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges. Quit twisting it all around and stick to the subject at hand.
 
James, design your closed loop, with the premise that pumps suck. Place your pump above the water line, hoping it'll suck water into itself, to prime itself. Keep in mind that you'll need to install a Priming Pot, http://www.nimbusponds.com/prod63.html as well. Hope the priming pot stays full, in the event of a power outage. However, in case it doesn't...make sure your priming pot has a "fill plug," so you can remove the plug and fill the priming pot, in order to prime the pump.

LOL and now I'm done....really....

OK lets assume and you are likely right that they do not suck, they just refill, 2 things we need to do.

1) agree that the water entering the displaced area in the pump actually causes flow while it is doing so.
2) we should change the name suction side to replacement side.

Paul
ps please do not break down this post and repost out of context.
 
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