cloudy water ques.

[mellowhead]

I have wondered this forever, but it never really mattered too much as I never kept anything that difficult. Now that I am on to sps, I have to ask. I was going to do a water change over the weekend and my RO water (before any salt) was super clear. I added some buffer and still very clear. After I added some salt it was still clear. Then when I added enough salt to make 35ppm the water goes cloudy...? I am using Reef Crystals salt mix. I want to say it is an inbalance in my chemistry that is causing this, but I am not sure. Well I decided to hold off on the change until tonight just to see if this water is still ok to use? I have seen this before, sometimes not as bad though. Any ideas?

MH.

PS - Water was aerated and heated before the salt went in.

 

[DonW]

I have wondered this forever, but it never really mattered too much as I never kept anything that difficult. Now that I am on to sps, I have to ask. I was going to do a water change over the weekend and my RO water (before any salt) was super clear. I added some buffer and still very clear. After I added some salt it was still clear. Then when I added enough salt to make 35ppm the water goes cloudy...? I am using Reef Crystals salt mix. I want to say it is an inbalance in my chemistry that is causing this, but I am not sure. Well I decided to hold off on the change until tonight just to see if this water is still ok to use? I have seen this before, sometimes not as bad though. Any ideas?

MH.

PS - Water was aerated and heated before the salt went in.

Reef crystals is pretty good and balanced right out of the bucket. Why are you adding buffer? What buffer? Are you testing Ca, Mg and alk?

Don

 

[wrightme43]

+1 on the why adding buffer.
If you need buffer add it after the salt is at 35ppt. With reef crystals you shouldnt need it, IME anyway.
More than likely you had a precipitation of buffer and ca (the old more marbles in the water than the water can hold analogy.)

 

[Meche]

I use RC and have never had to add anything, other than it, to my rodi water.

 

[mellowhead]

Reef crystals is pretty good and balanced right out of the bucket. Why are you adding buffer? What buffer? Are you testing Ca, Mg and alk?

Don

Ca and Alk definitely tested for with Salifert. Mg I am just starting to test for as softies didn't care much, but since I have moved to sps I am. I always had to use buffer for IO, as the ALK and PH are low when using RO/DI water. Or at least mine was. I just started using RC, so next time I will make up the water and check the ALK and PH without the buffer.

Thanks,
MH

 

[DonW]

Ca and Alk definitely tested for with Salifert. Mg I am just starting to test for as softies didn't care much, but since I have moved to sps I am. I always had to use buffer for IO, as the ALK and PH are low when using RO/DI water. Or at least mine was. I just started using RC, so next time I will make up the water and check the ALK and PH without the buffer.

Thanks,
MH

First thing ph buffers increase alk. So if you buffer your fresh you going to make alk jump way up causing an imbalance. RODI water has nothing to do with alk or ph. Mg is just as important to softies as any other coral. Without the proper Mg the chemistry balance is going to be skewed. Regular IO has a alk of around 9 which is fine for sps and softies. It is low on ca and mg so those need to added. RC is good right out of the bucket so nothing additional is needed.

Don

 

[mellowhead]

First thing ph buffers increase alk. So if you buffer your fresh you going to make alk jump way up causing an imbalance. RODI water has nothing to do with alk or ph. Mg is just as important to softies as any other coral. Without the proper Mg the chemistry balance is going to be skewed. Regular IO has a alk of around 9 which is fine for sps and softies. It is low on ca and mg so those need to added. RC is good right out of the bucket so nothing additional is needed.

Don

Thanks for the reply and helpful info. I understand they raise both raise Alk and PH. Also understand the balance between Alk, Calc, and MG pretty well(read a lot), but never saw anything but great color and growth so I didn't worry as much as long as my alk/calc was stable. But RO/DI water should be aerated and buffer if needed as the alk/Ph can test low. (PH should be in the range of about 7.0 - neutral after water has been filtered with RO, do't remember the alk range of top of head) In my case my alk was also on the low side until I did this. Not so much with saltwater, but more so with top off freshwater. I know there are many agruments about adding buffer, aerating, etc, so I do not want to go there. I just know that I always had a hard time keeping alk stable until I started using small amount of buffer. I will retest and reevaluate dosing buffer to new saltwater. But for my top off I will still continue to buffer.

Thanks Again,
MH

 

[mellowhead]

just found this, thought you might want to see

This is off WWM and it looks as though this guy is seeing the same thing. The only difference I have with this guy is my whole tank has never gone cloudy. SO it does make me wonder who else sees this trend?

Water tastes great and the phosphate level is nearly zero. But when I add IO the mix turns cloudy. I've let it sit a few days and its still cloudy. I added the six gallons to the tank and the whole tank turns cloudy for a few hours. Numbers are all dead on and the phosphate level is slowing dropping. But what is the deal with the cloudy mix with RO water that I never encountered with the mix using that horrible tap water?
< Well- it could be just about anything...I've seen this phenomenon myself, and I have this totally unfounded theory that it may have something to do with the lack of minerals or some other substances in the water which affect the way the salt mix dissolves. I noticed that when I started "prepping" the RO water with a product designed to buffer the water, this phenomenon ceased. Just a half-baked theory, maybe even totally coincidental- but it's as good a guess as any by this non-chemist>

 

[chris&barb]

i know you dont want to go there, but lets

I understand they raise both raise Alk and PH.

buffers will raise Alk but depending on what the buffer is it can raise or lower Ph. Ph is dependent on the level of CO2 in the water not the Alk. a high Alk will resist the tendency of Ph to swing.

But RO/DI water should be aerated and buffer if needed as the alk/Ph can test low.

there are no minerals (tds)in RO/DI(that's why we use it) so Alk will always be low and Ph could be anywhere. IMO its not even worth testing PH in RO because it imposable to get an accurate reading.

the short of it is. you replace Ro water to your tank because water evaporated from your tank. when that water evaporated it left all of the minerals behind, only pure fresh water evaporated and thats all you need to add back.

if you were having trouble keeping alk up before you started buffering your top off, you just wernt adding enough buffer in the first place.

 

[DonW]

But RO/DI water should be aerated and buffer if needed as the alk/Ph can test low.

Nope,nope and definately not the case. We do not care what the ph or alk of rodi water is or is not.

Don

 

[mellowhead]

if you were having trouble keeping alk up before you started buffering your top off, you just wernt adding enough buffer in the first place.

problem was I wasn't adding at all.

 

[mellowhead]

Nope,nope and definately not the case. We do not care what the ph or alk of rodi water is or is not.

Don

Thanks for the talk and info

MH

PS - so was the original question ever answered? Do you believe (to the best of your knowledge) it is the addition of buffer that turns the water cloudy or something comlpetely different:?:

 

[chris&barb]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.php

 

[mellowhead]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.php

Thanks for the link I will read over it tonight.

 

[Sherman]

PS - so was the original question ever answered? Do you believe (to the best of your knowledge) it is the addition of buffer that turns the water cloudy or something comlpetely different:?:

I would bet it was the buffer causing a precipitation event, yes.

And +1 more for not buffering RO/DI or top-off.