stonepilot
Member
Whats your favorite detritus eater?
detritus
- Thread starter stonepilot
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reedman
Well-known member
...and my syphon....get it out and it doesn't have to be eaten
Sk8r
Well-known member
A fighting conch. They're such hard workers.
Krish
RF STAFF
My husbandry, then my flow and skimmer
liveforphysics
Banned
A complete macro and micro fauna population, high flow, and cheato. My rocks and sand always stay 100% visible detritus free. Its possible my sand bed is filling up with it, but it sure doesnt indicate that to me from watching what a meger little could it makes when I give the sand a stir.
Scooterman
Well-known member
You ever blow the rocks with a turkey baster?liveforphysics said:
liveforphysics
Banned
I never have anything on the rocks to blow off. A few members that have come over to check out my tanks have said "wow, you really keep your tanks clean, you must be blowing off those rocks every day."
I'm thinking to myself, hmm, I dont even wipe the salt creep off the outside of the tanks... I have never, and hopefully will never have to do any sort of fooling with detritus.
My thoughts on how it works are fairly simple. Due to basic energy laws, everything that non-autotropic critters eat, exits as a lower energy state. The critters have a max carrying capacity, so there bio mass reaches a point where it cant continue to increase in population. At this point, the birth rates should roughly be equaling the death rates(natural and unnatural) (hence the concept of carrying capacity). The parts of the dead ones are eaten by others and broken down by bacteria and things. Due to that handy dandy law of energy conservation, at some point everything reaches a lower energy state, and becomes an inorganic compounds (nitrate, phosphate etc). At this point, by best friend Cheato is on any nitrate or phosphate compounds like a fat kid on cake. The cheato rapidly grows, and is equaly rapidly exported.
So, its kinda simple, I add food composed of mainly N and P materials. I export cheato made of N and P materials.
Now, it seems amazing to think that the food I put in can create such huge masses of cheato, and I think its because its also getting suplimentry feeding from the uncured liverock I add perodically when I see some sponge or something on it that I just gotta have.
I'm thinking to myself, hmm, I dont even wipe the salt creep off the outside of the tanks... I have never, and hopefully will never have to do any sort of fooling with detritus.
My thoughts on how it works are fairly simple. Due to basic energy laws, everything that non-autotropic critters eat, exits as a lower energy state. The critters have a max carrying capacity, so there bio mass reaches a point where it cant continue to increase in population. At this point, the birth rates should roughly be equaling the death rates(natural and unnatural) (hence the concept of carrying capacity). The parts of the dead ones are eaten by others and broken down by bacteria and things. Due to that handy dandy law of energy conservation, at some point everything reaches a lower energy state, and becomes an inorganic compounds (nitrate, phosphate etc). At this point, by best friend Cheato is on any nitrate or phosphate compounds like a fat kid on cake. The cheato rapidly grows, and is equaly rapidly exported.
So, its kinda simple, I add food composed of mainly N and P materials. I export cheato made of N and P materials.
Now, it seems amazing to think that the food I put in can create such huge masses of cheato, and I think its because its also getting suplimentry feeding from the uncured liverock I add perodically when I see some sponge or something on it that I just gotta have.
Scooterman
Well-known member
I understand what your saying but for giggles have you stuck a baster or a ph directly at the rock to see if anything would blow off that may not necessarily be seen? If no do it & lets us know what you see! I'd be surprised if you didn't get anything at all, even with direct flow on the rocks something should dust up even if it is just a little.
liveforphysics
Banned
Ok, scrounged around for a baster in the kitchen, cleaned it, and reached in there pumping like a mad man at a rock just for you. Besides getting attacked by my clown unexpectedly and pulling my hand back breaking off a pocilipora, I saw a fine white powder come off the surface in some places. I appears to be some type of precipiate, possibily calcium carbonate or something similar.
I am really really glad this sort of activity is not part of my maintence needs.
I am really really glad this sort of activity is not part of my maintence needs.
liveforphysics
Banned
Now, Mojo has the best system for this sort of thing I've ever seen. He uses the detritus to his advantage, as the corals feed on the bacterias its covered in. He lets it collect on the bottom, then activates a very powerful lower set of jets on a seperate closed loop system that blow the detritus up onto the corals for consumption.
His tank is very very well done. Its basicaly like an unskimmed tank that gets a very slow but constant water change. His skimming method is absoultely NOT similar with becket/venturi type skimmers, totally differnt operation, and totally differnt material removed. I give it two huge thumbs up as another system to effectively defeat detritus, and use it to your advantage.
His tank is very very well done. Its basicaly like an unskimmed tank that gets a very slow but constant water change. His skimming method is absoultely NOT similar with becket/venturi type skimmers, totally differnt operation, and totally differnt material removed. I give it two huge thumbs up as another system to effectively defeat detritus, and use it to your advantage.
DonW
R.I.P.
liveforphysics said:
You really got me confused here. The last time I saw Mojos tank it was BB, used a huge spa set-up to vacuum and had a huge airstone driven skimmer that produced bubbles? This set up is all about removal before it can rot unlike a unskimmed system.
Don
liveforphysics
Banned
Rather than having his water continously stripped of quick to strip things like a typical high flow skimmed tank, his tank just trickles an amount of water into his super amazing skimmer that basically restores it like NSW, then trickles it back in the tank.
Thats why I say it runs like an unskimmed tank that is constantly getting a water change (even though its been years since he changed any water).
I see that as very different than the way other skimmed tanks operate. Maybe you have differnt insight?
Thats why I say it runs like an unskimmed tank that is constantly getting a water change (even though its been years since he changed any water).
I see that as very different than the way other skimmed tanks operate. Maybe you have differnt insight?
Krish
RF STAFF
Luke...I think you are very lucky to have a tank free of detritus. I just added a closed loop to my system putting my flow just slightly above 5,000 gph in my 75 gal, and when I blow my rocks every afternoon with my Tunze, I get a heap load of detritus coming off. The only spots that don't shed is where the Tunze and CL blows directly on. I won't talk about deadspots on the bottom...I have to lift my tunze and point it against the backwall to push everything from under the rocks into the water column to be skimmed or for me to siphon off if it is too much. Don't know what I will do now to add more flow...
Scooterman
Well-known member
Thanks for all the work in blasting the rocks. I once had an aquamedic turbo floater skimmer, the pump that supplied it barely pushed water into it but this mighty little skimmer made more junk than I could believe for a skimmer of such a small size, Mike's principles hold true years back when that was all they had. Barry from aquaMedic told me these principles of contact time & back then I didn't realize what he meant about that, comparing it to some of the skimmers I see now that little skimmer still holds true.
RedEyeReef
Well-known member
Mojo are you out there? What is the flow through rate (gph) on your skimmer?
liveforphysics
Banned
If I remember correctly, I think he told me his skimmer turns over the tank water once daily, or every couple days.
Scooterman-
If you are saying that his skimmer is the way it is because he likes old tech, you couldnt be further from reality.
If I have to draw it all out for you with fluid-dynamics formulas and such, I will. You simply CAN NOT (seriously a physics driven impossibility, doesnt matter the brand or how much it costs) produce the same skimming effect through venturi/becket air injection. It doesnt matter what sort of nozzle, pump, chokes and impellers are used, its an impossibility.
BTW, for anyone who thinks that "becket" nozzles (just the brand name of a pond kit manufacture) are something new, its tech that was being used in at least the 1800s, greeks may have even used the concept. It was definately available at anytime people were making skimmers.
Its quick, easy, and cheap so it sells, which is all it takes for companys to supply them. It removes different material than an air stone setup, and if you really want to know the physics of why, I can break it all down for you on paper.
I am only being so through about this because I dont want your comments to be missleading people into thinking that a becket is some sort of step forward in design made possible by new tech. Its just a cheaper easier to sell method, which is why its so popular.
Ok, now, i dont wana hyjack this guys thread anymore, so if you wana go deep on this, it seems fair that a new thread would be in order. Bring in differnt aquarium product manufactures or whom ever you like for support, it will make for an educational experience.
Scooterman-
If you are saying that his skimmer is the way it is because he likes old tech, you couldnt be further from reality.
If I have to draw it all out for you with fluid-dynamics formulas and such, I will. You simply CAN NOT (seriously a physics driven impossibility, doesnt matter the brand or how much it costs
) produce the same skimming effect through venturi/becket air injection. It doesnt matter what sort of nozzle, pump, chokes and impellers are used, its an impossibility.BTW, for anyone who thinks that "becket" nozzles (just the brand name of a pond kit manufacture) are something new, its tech that was being used in at least the 1800s, greeks may have even used the concept. It was definately available at anytime people were making skimmers.
Its quick, easy, and cheap so it sells, which is all it takes for companys to supply them. It removes different material than an air stone setup, and if you really want to know the physics of why, I can break it all down for you on paper.
I am only being so through about this because I dont want your comments to be missleading people into thinking that a becket is some sort of step forward in design made possible by new tech. Its just a cheaper easier to sell method, which is why its so popular.
Ok, now, i dont wana hyjack this guys thread anymore, so if you wana go deep on this, it seems fair that a new thread would be in order. Bring in differnt aquarium product manufactures or whom ever you like for support, it will make for an educational experience.
Scooterman
Well-known member
I think you took that wrong, not the refined design but the idea of what is required to get the particulate attachment. Dude sometimes you just go way over board lol.
liveforphysics
Banned
I get a little protective of the equipment that I actually like
IMO, A proper air stone skimmer (like Mikes) is a very neat tool. Also IMO venturi types are very poor replacments that cause more detrimental issues than they help (unless its a FO/FOLR).
99.9% of the world dissagrees with me, and I would be worried if they didn't.
I guess I'm a sensitive guy.
IMO, A proper air stone skimmer (like Mikes) is a very neat tool. Also IMO venturi types are very poor replacments that cause more detrimental issues than they help (unless its a FO/FOLR).
99.9% of the world dissagrees with me, and I would be worried if they didn't.
I guess I'm a sensitive guy.
