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Hi Ben,

Chris pointed me to this thread. I'm not exactly how much he shared with you but I thought I'd chime in with a few of our observations as you deal with this terrible tragedy. Like you, I felt sick when I walked in the store and saw all the beautiful corals we have been collecting/growing for years turned white and pastel. I wanted to give up. Only knowing what we experienced the first time this happened kept me sane.

First...I agree with the few who have posted that all heaters suck. After 18 years on the retail side of this I probably have heard or experienced a horror story with every brand/type. Heaters and (IMHO Rios) should be on GFCI. Like Jesse mentioned you want to be careful about what items you combine on a GFCI or a bad heater could shut off your circulation pumps etc.

Second...SPS and clams do not do well with the whole electrocution/stray voltage thing. As many of you know we bought a used sea swirl that turned out it had a hairline crack on an internal fitting. This crack expanded and caused an "electrocution" event in our display. We also had this happen a year ago in a grow out tank when a desk top fan fell into the tank. In both instances clams and SPS were affected the most. We immediately did a water change and added carbon. There may or may not be losses which should be pulled, but be careful. Many sps will bleach completely but as long as they have polyps leave them in the aquarium. It seems as though the zoaxanthellae is either killed or stressed so it leaves the coral. They will recolonize the corals over time. Some will recover quicker than others. It took 4-16 weeks for full recovery amongst the different species the first time. In our case we are constantly adding new healthy corals so some of the zoaxanthellae being recruited may be coming from them but i suspect that as long as you have a few healthy corals it will still take place. The one thing, we think, helps the corals survive as they recruit new algae is increased plankton feeding so they can make up for the lack of energy from photosynthesis. We bumped our feedings of the 3 liquid life products and dosed a couple times with amino acids.

We are now somewhere between 4-6 weeks after our second episode and things are almost back to normal. Hopefully its obvious that the above info is just personal observation and is not meant to be taken any other way.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your corals to have a speedy recovery with few losses. Feel free to call us with any questions.
 
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Thanks Cy for the thoughtful reply. Your experience gives me hope. What you've just described (polyps, w/ little/no flesh) is exactly what I'm seeing on the majority of these corals. If I had not heard this from you guys, I would've probably just tossed them in the trash yesterday. So thank you.

Here's how I've tackled the problem so far:

  • I've done ~40-50% water change now
  • two canisters of carbon running
  • dosed calcium/alk/mg b/c it was a little low - will continue to do so until I'm back at optimum
  • added those sweet Elos Amino Acids I picked up from you guys the other week.
  • using freeze dried cyclopeeze & reef chili for phyto
  • I may pickup some DTs or other live phyto here shortly and give that a try too.

Anything else you guys can think of?
 
The test showed no trace!! yipee! I'll check again tomorrow just to be sure - this one has me concerned - plus it's the first time I did the test, so just want to make sure I did it right.

Mike - thanks for the thoughtful explanation - you sure do know a lot about wide variety of topics. :D I'm impressed.

The zero reading is good news, but do a search here for "copper test."
I have read that some kits measure for certain types of dissolved copper better than others. In a reef, very trace amounts of copper are quite detrimental and the kits are measuring for quantities necessary for treatment of fish. This is why each copper treatment has it's own dedicated test. After the big water change and with all the sand and rock, probably not a huge issue. But I still wonder what specifically caused the loss. I still wonder if electricution events are from the voltage or metals. Be that as it may, we all learn and observe new things every day here. Glad things are heading toward the upside.
 
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I couldn't say wether the corals reaction is to voltage or to copper poisoning. If there were copper present it would need to be dealt with for sure. I just wonder if it wouldn't get bound up in the rock and substrate pretty quickly. Maybe after it had already done its damage, but it also might explain a zero reading at this point. I am definately not a chemist so I'll let someone else explain what form this copper would be in and what it would react/bond with.
 
Cy, agreed. Would sure be nice to know but maybe never will. Electrocution events and stray voltage concerns is a big mystery to me. I even wonder if HLLE attributed to SV is from the electricity or just poor fish management that often goes hand in hand. Know of people in swimming pools with lightning strikes and no problem other than soiled linen. The electricity did not ground through them. But am also aware that the coral bleaching events are leaning toward more than just temp, but to copper pollution. Copper and cadmium is killer on sps and clams. Either way, broken electrical is scary!!! You not only run an excellent store that I love to frequent, you add a lot to this website. Thanks!

Attached is a link to a PDF doc on coral bleaching and copper research. Google can bring up many dozens.

http://fig.cox.miami.edu/~ddiresta/BIL151/Bleaching.pdf
 
Sorry you have to go through this.
I had the same thing happen a few years back.
I went on an overnight trip and came back to a tank with a heater with a crack. I had die off the first day but it was around 3 days when the full extent of the damage was evident. After the initial and subsequent dieoff, the corals that survived made a full recovery. And the tank came back nicely, so no issues then with copper contamination.
 
Day 2 - fall out continues - today I lost my ORA pink Mili colony, rainbow monti, and purple pinapple thingy. my oregon hasn't turned completely white yet, which I'm actually excited about.

Even though they have some flesh on them, I should toss these right?

IMG_0390.jpg


IMG_0398.jpg


hopefully day 3 is a little better
 
Premium aquatics wrote me.. had some interesting stuff to say...

Hi Ben,

I'm very sorry to hear about the coral losses. We certainly are very sensitive to any losses customers could get from products we sell and we watch quality control issues very carefully.

The whole Finnex problems have been very hard for us to decide on. It goes back years to other brands. We have sold Won Brothers for almost 10 years and there were great, then tons of problems, overheats, duds, etc. Then Finnex came along and for the first several years had less then 1% defects and all but 1 or 2 isolated overheats, just duds. So they were by far better quality then any other brand we could find out there. So we started recommended these over Won and others. Then we started having issues with them and found out the manufacture had some type of issue and was fixing the problem.

We pulled our inventory and waited about 3 months before restocking them with the newest version and since then haven't heard of problems.

I don't have any problem pulling the plugs on these or any other brand if they are not reliable. The main problem we face is I don't think any of the titanium heaters are real trustworthy, but customers want them because they are so powerful of heaters. It seems all of them are made in China. If I could find a quality German or Japan titanium heater I would get it, but so far haven't been able to find anything.


and probably the most valauble info, when I asked for a recomendation on a heater:

I like Titanium because it's a smooth constant heat, but if you are not using them on a controller ,like Neptune, Pinpoint, Lighthouse, I don't think I would trust them. So either that route, or going glass. I think Eheim Jager and Hydor are the best glass heaters. Those VisiTherm Stealth plastic heaters though have done very well, haven't had any complaints on those.
 
i would not toss anything unless completly complety desrtoyed.....

ive seen coarsl look like nothing but a dead exo---- and come back

so stick in there... stay on the water changes... montior the water stats... look for nh4 you dont wanna spike.

hang in there buddy.
 
i would not toss anything unless completly complety desrtoyed.....

ive seen coarsl look like nothing but a dead exo---- and come back

so stick in there... stay on the water changes... montior the water stats... look for nh4 you dont wanna spike.

hang in there buddy.

Agreed...we only threw out the entirely dead pieces. Anything that started to STN or RTN we made individual calls on wether to let it runs its course in hope that stability was best or fragging them to stop the necrosis.
 
Frag and start anew!

Thanks guys. on that mili, I think I'll frag it. I've seen RTN a couple other times and I think this is what's happening. Last time I had a coral RTN on me, I tried fragging about 4 times, but it didn't end up any difference. Hopefully I have better luck..

And the fragging sheers come out...:|
 
I wonder what heaters are considered best? most reliable? Anybody know of a consumer study done on aquarium heaters?

If the Germans can't build/design a good one, no one can. :lol:

I bought two Jager heaters after the first Aqua-Via heater crapped out. Good thing I did because the second Aqua-Via, I had laying around, didn't last a month.

Hopefully they will last longer.
 
I tried fragging about 4 times, but it didn't end up any difference. Hopefully I have better luck..

And the fragging sheers come out...:|

I had an RTN on a free coral from a bad looking tank. Frags kept RTNing till the last 1/4" fragged off and it made it. Now a well encrusted 1/2" bright green frag that I love, Good luck pal!
 
definatly sad yeah
but atleast or your softys made it through
when the barrier reef "dies" in 20-30 years i reackon soft coral will take over the reef untill an sps can live past 30c

best of luck and dont chuck anything with a little life ive seen a galaxia cum back from 1 and half nodes and repopulate the original skeleton and then sum
 
Funny how we spend so much on cooling tanks & heating is usually reduced down to a few throw in heaters. You can by expensive in-line heaters but really If you have a larger system is this necessary? We don't get as cool down here so basically I would almost never need a heater. What I do do (I said DODO LOL)on the coldest days is turn off all fans, have slightly longer photo periods, I on really cold (ehh 30's) I will toss in a heater with a good controller but I don't leave them in there. I used about ten different kinds, I found the EBO'S & the Wan- Pro heat (The one with the separate probe) works best but before I put them in the water I will inspect them throughly. When I inspect I look at connections of media like the titanium to plastic, or the Pyrex glass to the plastic top, this is where the seal will usually fail & water will eventually find its way in. This holds true to PH's & submersible pumps, keeping them clean & inspected regular will help prevent such problems. One thing that Ben mentioned was having a frag tank or a QT or some sort of side system set-up to back you up when you have a problem, not easy done I know but with a little simple set-up or even the equipment ready to be set-up quick would work. It would be nice to take RTN corals, frag them & place them in basically a sterile environment & see how well it will recoup.
 
Ben,

sorry to hear of this incident and to be so negligent in missing this thread.

FWIW I have had a 75W ebo jager for 1.5 yrs and two 250 Ebos for 1 year without incident. Belive it or not my junker 100W petco heater has been faithful for make up water for near a year now as well.

After reading through this, I suddenly have quite a few frags with your name on them.

ORA rose mille
Pink stylo
Green w/ purple tip pocillapora
tri color acro (the one you just gave me) Ill keep a baby frag and you can have the rest
blue green stag
Yellow mille
Blue mille (when I frag it again)
And the list goes on......... YOu will just have to come by to see what you want when you get a chance.
 
Trido, this kind of generosity is what makes our hobby a pleasure!

Mike - couldn'tve said it better myself. Duane (Trido) is a good man. Not only has he offered to help me with the corals above, but he's also helping me with the contruction of my new in wall tank build. I hope only one day I can pay him back for his generosity.

Hopefully making everyone appreciate the great sense of community we have here even more, I want to let everyone know that the generosity has not stopped there either.... Each of the following individuals have contacted me and offered replacement frags..

sgwill122
Jezzeaepi
Jan
Ed Hahn
Steven11
jamiehill
Snowboarda42

Hopefully I'm not missing anyone (not intentional if I did)

I hope that my corals pull through and I don't have to take advantage of their offers, but it is an overwhelmingly comforting to know that we live in an area where there are genuinly nice, giving, caring, generous people. I really can't put into words my thank you for your support, but I'll try.

"THANK YOU"


(sometimes simple is better) :p

.
 

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