Finally testing water, ca 500 a problem?

[clevergeek]

Well, I mentioned that I had lost a few millipora's frags and an acropora to someone at my LFS, and he asked me for my water params. I've never really tested them, and he told me I should probably just be flushing my coral down the toilet. On that note, I bought some kits. (ouch!)

Here are my results, which I also tested with some older kits I forgot I had received with the tank (but which seem to give consistent readings with the new tests, except alk).

Salinity - 1.025-1.026 depending on where I am with topping off, using RO/DI
Nitrates - Less than 5 (appears to be 0 based on color chart)
Alk - 2.9meq/l with one test (newer), almost 3.5 with the second (older), both of which were consistent with a retest
pH - 8.4
Ca - 500
temp - 78f
light - 250w hqi and two 96 watt pc's (actinics)
feeding - 1cm chunk of frozen cyclopese twice a week (if I remember), and spot feedings of tiny bits of thawed scallop for the candycanes, rbta, hairy mushroom, and sun coral, maybe once a week or so.

I have a small yellow "reef safe" goby in the tank that actively picks at my sps. First I was trying to net it out, then trap it...now I'm actively trying to take it's life. (he's a crafty one, and he's very aware of the fact that I'm trying to kill him). I think it's highly likely that he killed the milli's, but I never really saw him pick at the acropora. Are my calcium levels high enough to start killing things off? Five-hundred is the top of my test kit's acceptable range, but I've read several things on various forums that mention folks using similar levels. Is there something I should be testing that I'm not?

My softies, clams, and anemone all look great. My LPS (hammer, pipe organ, candy canes) all look healthy, and some of them (candy canes) are growing very quickly. I have three different colors of monti digi that all look fantastic, and are growing very quickly. Several other Pocilloporas, monti caps, and Stylophoras all looks fine, but aren't showing the growth of the digi, and two birdsnests that seem to be surviving fine, but don't show polyp extension anything like when I got them. (and I don't think that's the result of the goby, they closed up when I first got them, and I haven't seen major extension on them since acclimating them).

I still have three or four remaining acro frags, all of which are hanging in there (all have been in the tank more than a month), but aren't really showing growth I can see, and rarely showing much if any polyp extension or noticeable color-- they all stay a bit pale, but I know they're alive because they never get even a hint of algae on them. If I leave things alone will my candycanes, clams, and digi's suck up that extra CA, or should I do a large water change and bring things back below 400?

Sorry for the long rambling post!

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I don't think your Ca levels are the problem. There are plenty of commercial salts that mix up in that range. I guess my question though is how did you end up with it that high? Do you use a salt mix that's naturally high in calcium to start with? (If so, then you can do water changes 'till the cows come home, and it won't do a bit of good.) Or have you added something to boost that calcium? If so, what was it and how much/how often did you use it.

Even though your parameters right now look fine, if you added something to your tank in the past, it could've changed something too quick and stressed things out.

 

[returnofsid]

I've never heard of any commercial salts that mix at 500. I would say 500 is actually way high, consider natural sea water levels are at 400-420. I would aim for 380-420, typically 410. I've also recently learned that higher Ca levels are actually hard on our corals as it causes them to work harder to expel the calcium. I have a thread on the chemistry forum where I asked about Alk levels and this was explained to me very well there. That particular thread shouldn't be hard to find.

The two results you're getting for your Alk are actually quite a large swing, so it's important for you to figure out which one is accurate. See if your LFS can test for you. Toss the one that's inaccurate out.

All other parameters look great!! I'd suggest testing for Magnesium as well.

 

[Boomer]

There are quite few the test out to 500 ppm Ca++ or even more ,i.e., Kent, Oceanic ( 580), Ocean Pure, Coralife and the SeaChem's.

I don't see anything really wrong either but the pH is getting up there.

'till the cows come home

Well said Kurt

 

[returnofsid]

Very interesting and thanks for correcting me. I had no idea any salts had CA levels that high. So am I also wrong in stating that CA levels that high actually make corals work harder to expel the CA?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I don't think you're wrong there, Sid. I've read the same stuff that says grossly higher than NSW values for Ca are not only useless, but can hinder growth. Why some salts are so imbalanced is beyond me. I aim for the same Ca as you... 410, and I keep my alk between 8-10 dkH. Things seem pretty happy with that combo.

 

[clevergeek]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I hate to abuse the privilege, but it's really nice to have your experience around to help sort this stuff out.

The thread you mentioned actually turned up in one of the searches I did before posting, which is actually why I asked the question about kill-off due to higher CA levels. Prior to the purchase of the test kits I had been adding ca (on the assumption that I just "needed more"), but far less than what was mentioned on the bottle. I'm wondering if the real problem (which is poor polyp extension in sps, and a few acro/milli deaths) is something I haven't stumbled onto yet, like a misreading in my salt content (I haven't sprung for a refractometer yet, and I've heard of people having issues with misreads on their swing arms...

I was already thinking I should have the shop confirm my test results, but happened to be in a different store yesterday, and the owner of the shop said my kit was just wrong (most likely that I was using it wrong). He said at 500 I'd already be seeing "snowstorms" (which I hadn't really heard of, but would assume is the CA coming back out of solution?) in the tank.

I've been using Instant Ocean salt, but would change if there was a better recommendation. I'm going to do another 15% or so water change tonight...I sure would like to see my SPS perk up...it'd be great if everything looked at happy as those digi's I picked up from 'sid.

Thanks!

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

#1 - Get a refractometer!

#2 - Get a refractometer!

#3...

Not sure if you'd see a snowstorm at 500. With Instant Ocean, your Ca content at 1.025 SG will probably be around 340-360, so water changes will definitely help to bring your Calcium down. Everyone has their favorite salt, but the best salt is the one that works for you. (How's that for a non-definitive answer.)

Calcium levels will vary depending on your salinity, so until you accurately know your salinity, you're just kind of chasing ghosts with your calcium. Once you DO know your numbers, this is one of the best articles out there on how to rebalance your levels...

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm