First Problem with new Reef

[zoltun]

Hi All,

This is my first post other than those that stated I'll buy that. Which due to this forum I have bought a tank(110 gallon),Lr with nice zoo polyps on it(ended up 20lb rock for free,jlehigh great guy), and some corals at a great price. I have enjoyed reading this forum over the past three months and have soaked up alot of information and have had most of my questions answered via other peoples posts.

So here lies the problem. I have had my tank up for just over a month( Was planning on adding a "My tank thread" but due to time have not yet. My favorites posts are those from people showing progress and what they did and how they did it)

I started adding fish after my cycle had completed. First three damsels to make sure all was good. Then I put in a couple percs, sebia anemone, cleaner shrimp, six line wrasse(I bought a guys display of what he had left.) Everything was good and healthy. I bought a bunch of corrals but those are still in my friends display. I'm a fish first guy. I was going slow and planned to watch all these for awhile.

Then I got stupid!!!

You know that "I'll just take a look at the LFS to see what they have and not buy anything trip we all make" I made it and walked away with things I intended to buy later but did so now. 1 sailfin tang, 1 hippo tang, and he through in what he said was a blue Gungen but its not, some kind of Dart fish I have figured. The LFS was clearing out there tanks for big Christmas sale so I got a good deal.

The Sailfin and the Dart fish started eating well from the start. The Hippo hid 90% of the time for the first few days and did not eat. I talked to the LFS and they said that was normal. One week later he was doing better and I caught him eating after he thought it was safe. He was out about 60% from his hiding spot. Now almost two weeks later he is out 95% of the time and eating like a pig.

Problem is 2 days ago I noticed a couple white spots on him, they seemed to disapear so I did not think anything of it. This morning he had more but mostly gone by the afternoon. This evening However he had alot and was noticeably irretated by them. He was also visting the Shrimp often. Still eating like a pig at evening feeding.

So after lots of research (I have researched this a bit before) this evening I believe its ICK!!!! I was familiar with all the cures before but dug deeper now that I have it.

The Solution I'm looking at right now is lots of water changes and adding Ruby Reef Kick Ich. I just don't have a QT for that many fish and would like to treat the display. I have not heard anyone thats used the Ruby product on this forum and would like to hear if anyone might know if this is a good way to start. I want to kill this in the Display so it does not comeback to haunt me.

I should have done what should be mandatory which is QT all fish before adding to display. Sometimes we just get too impatient and excited to do the smart thing.


Thanks
Chris

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

I will post an article on reefsafe meds when i go find it.. I wouldn't do it that way.. Just my opinion...
ok had to edit my post.. I got the 2 that started with an "R" confused.. It was the "rally" product that was deadly...Not the Ruby stuff.. never used it but tried something similar and the fish showed improvement but later died of the parasite in question.. I will never again waste my money and time with so called reef safe medications..

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/sp/index.php

 

[zoltun]

Thanks for the Thread was a good read.


Funny Thing I'm finding out with this Hobby is there are so many Unknows. Should I be the Guinea Pig on this if other people have not tried? I don't have many Corrals in the tank only a small colony of Mushrooms and some Zoo's. Not a very good control group. I was planning on adding some corrals that was in a friends tank that I bought. Not going to now until this problem is fixed.

I have spent alot of time with the tank since I got it and what I have observed is this.

I believe the Ick came in with the Sailfin. The Sailfin since he ate from the start is healthy and can fight it. I have noticed small white spots on his rear fin but they don't stay long. Plus after lights out for the first copule hours he spends time with the Cleaner Shrimp. The Hippo since he was not eating and stressed his immunity was low and an easy target. I got garlic today and trying to boost his immunity.

Even if after feeding him and boosting his immunity he fights it off. Everything I have read says that it is still there and the fish and parasites are at a standstill. So anything I add in the future might be easy prey and die fast. Thats my main concern.

 

[zoltun]

In regards to the LFS if you want to know who they are PM me and Ill let you know. The guy there I deal with has been good to me and gave me a nice rock of star polyps and something I'm trying to figure out what it is for free.

The responsiblity lies with me I did my research for 2 months before putting up my tank and I knew better. My friend who started me on Reefs ( I have kept fresh water for a long time) chastised me as well as my self yelling at me. Lfs is in business to sell stuff and yes they should inform people better but some play right on the line they gamble that what they sell won't have issues.

I believe the consumer should be informed on what they buy and I did and I knew it might be too early and I should setup a QT and I screwed up. My impatience and the beauty of the fish got the better of me, you see them in the little tank and belive you can provide a better life for them. Now i'm paying for it. I don't want the fish to pay for my mistake though, so I'll do what it takes to fix them.

Sorry for the long winded response. In all my research I have seen some people blame the LFS. Thing is this is more than just a Hobby, this whole little piece of the ocean rely's on us ands its our responsibilty to make sure they survive. Yes I'm beating myself up but its my fault my slice has easy to avert problems.

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

I wouldn't start adding more corals until you get your parameters stable and the system matures a little longer, at least a few months.. How big is your tank, lightning/type/watts?? skimmer?? etc.. How is the anenome doing??

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

Oh, by the way.. DO a search on "palytoxin". It is a must read for anyone who has zoa's in their posession..

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

Don't beat yourself up too bad.. it'll get better.. Just go slow...

 

[zoltun]

I'm not going to add anything for now. I have some corrals in a friends tank that I had planned on putting in this weekend but thats on hold.

Tank size is 110 with 40 gallon sump. The skimmer is a CPR but after researching it , might be a little small for the tank, it does skim alot of crud though (christmas present new skimmer ). The anemone is doing well first week stayed in the spot he moved too when I first put him in. He has moved since and quite not found his spot. He is opening more and more every day and looks good. I have fead him schrimp and he takes it very well.

Lighting is 4 Vho's 2 day and 2 actinic, I added some moonlighting in the past week.

Thanks for all your help so far. I get attached to what I keep and want the best for them.

 

[Krish]

Sorry to hear about you encountering problems already zoltun. Ich is a very common thing when it comes to tangs, which sucks, because for most of us they are our favorite species of fish. Nevertheless, it can be cured (which is the good thing) and I think that by you giving your tang some garlic, was a great start. Best of luck getting your fish back to health and I look forward to seeing your thread when you showcase your tank.

 

[snobanker]

Hi Chris,

I hope you get that Ick problem cleared up, obviously from your starting post you already know about using a QT first.....It is very well worth it and you can make one from a little tank. I wanted to point out one little thing I noticed, it seems like you added quite a lot of fish pretty quickly which makes for a big bio load change and may raise ammonia and cause another cycle. This would probably be an added stress on your fish as well. JMHO not picking or anything, just something I noticed....Good Luck and happy reefing

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

it seems like you added quite a lot of fish pretty quickly which makes for a big bio load change

I left that out on purpose.. I think it's a givin... Sh_t happens, and then we learn from it..

 

[zoltun]

Just a little update and a question or two.


I do agree with the assement that I added fish to fast. If you read carefully my intial post I try to make it clear that I made on of those "Trips" not intending to buy but "Whoops, get excited about the thought" I knew I had and compensated by doing lots of water changes and frequent testing. Since the Cycle I have had no noticable changes in Ammonia or Nitrite. Nitrates have remained stable at around 10. I would like that lower but will tackle that after I fix the Tang.

The Tang seems to being doing well even though he has Ick. The spots recede through the day and come back stronger at night(Consitent with all I have read about Ick). He seems to have less spots tonight then previous nights but still very noticeable. They annoy him and he does scratch himself. Eating very well and I'm soaking in Garlic for immunity, which depending on what you read may or may not help. He has over worked the Cleaner Schrimp so much that it has gained more muscle and Molted. In my reading if the Schrimp Molts that tends to be a good sign that the water parameters are good. I test for all the main stuff and my test come up good. I always read about the stuff you can't test for that can kill things, so a little worried.

Everything else in the tank seems unaffected and Anemone has become comfortable and exploded in size. Little upset at the spot he picked, Looking directly at the display all you see is his "BUTT". The few Softy Corals I have in there look to be growing and have a few new red mushrooms on my mushroom rock.

I'm going to try the Ruby reef stuff first, with constent vacumming of my SSB,here again and in just about everything some people swear buy it meaniong Ruby stuff and some people say don't bother. I wish I could find something people agreeded on. The more you study this Hobby the more you relize nobody agrees on anything except for the basics. Which go Include QT(Did not Do), Don't add fish to fast (hmm did not do), Buy only from LFS that QT's before display (hmmm here again did not do), Don't make impulse buy (Wow I'm not good at the basics because I did not do) There are a few basics I did do though.

So if plan A: does not work I have a Plan B: which is QT.

I have a 35 Gallon tank in the Garage that was used for Fresh water and an extra skimmer. I have a Fluval cannister filter that also was used for Fresh water. Let me run this buy you guys see what you think about my QT plans.

1. Clean Tank
2: Clean Cannister
3: Add water from display
4: Put Skimmer on
5: Add Power Head to tank
6: Add Bio Balls from Display as Filter media in Cannister
7: Add PVC hiding places
8: Add Fish

Let me know if this would be a good QT setup.

Thanks again for everyones input, I'm still learning and maybe in 10 years I might be able to contribute

 

[steve-s]

I would skip the skimmer if you choose hyposalinity as a treatment, it won't work in such a low saline environment. You also need to consider if copper is used, there's a good chance it will remain a "QT Only" piece of equipment.

How many fish (which species) will be housed in the QT?

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishermann]

Ich with tangs is nothing new. If the tank parims are in good order and the fish is eating good he well eventually rid himself of the ich. Garlic doesn't hurt, but watch that you don't pollute the tank, a drop goes along way. Put some of the small pellet foods in a shot glass and put a drop in and stir and let soak for 10 mins. then feed. I would definatly not put that Ruby stuff in, all you well end up doing is stressing the fish out and make things worse. UV if used at a high enough watt and the water flow is slowed down well help with ich.

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

I still would skip the chem treatment... All that will do is cause your water quality to degrade, which means more water changes to get rid of source of bad water, which means more stress for fish which is already obviously stressed. the more your hands are in the tank, the more you will stress out the tang.. just let him get over it by lowering his stress and building up his health....Garlic and vitamin supplements/selcon will help this out.. like said above do not add too much garlic.. it is quite potent, just soak it like said above up to 30 min.... good luck....I have a sailfin tang.. I feed him garlic almost daily.. but if he gets stressed out, he gets ich.. it goes away in a day or so...If he's getting better just leave him alone...... we can kill fish by over reacting and over treating..
that was a ramble!!!

 

[steve-s]

This is not meant as a snide comment so please do not take it as such but I am curious why someone would want to allow their fish to live with a problem that can easily be cured? It's something that's never made sense to me....

Cheers
Steve

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

My thought on that is you will add more stress trying to remove to fish, which will be more harmful than good.. if he's getting better already (like said above) why stress him out more.. Stress will make him less immune to the parasite..

 

[steve-s]

True enough, stress will reduce the immune response. That said though a healthy fish can become equally infested as one in ailing health, the only difference is the healthier one will last longer if conditions remain in it's favor. A fish that is continually battling a parasite and it's immune system under constant attack will also have a much shorter life expectancey. Often being much more vulnerable to opportunistic bacteria.

As far as moving the fish, I disagree. A fish infested with a parasite will definately be stressed but curing it of said parasite and ensuring the tank is rid of it will go along way to a permanant solution. Wouldn't that be a more worthy goal rather than being intermittent and ongoing? Aquired immunity in fish for C. irritans is usually short lived.

If a fish is captured properly and placed in a cycled QT, the stress will not be significant. If you try chasing after them with a net in the day, you are correct in the stress problem.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

Do what ever you wish.. That was only my opinion!!!