First SW tank.. tons of dumb questions! Help a newb get started? :)

[Tuku4u]

Looking good Janky. Glad things are starting to come together for you. sorry I didn't get back to you about that Kenya tree over the weekend but I still have it for you, and can meet up with you sometime this week to drop it off. Your candy canes look great, they will/should open up more then that when things start balancing out for you. The one that looks like it's dead, looks like it still has tissue on it, which could mean that it will bounce back. I accidentally scraped a large section of a candy cane off when i was using a tooth brush to clean off some hair algae on it....also jabbed one literalyl right in the mouth with my "grabbers" when i was fishing out shrimp skin. It didn't like that...actually closed up for a week and I thought it would be a gonner...I got it pre-tty good. But bounced back and looks great again. Time and effort bro and you got it. Pretty soon you will start getting more corals and they will start growing faster then you realize, THEN....you will want to upgrade...and upgrade...and then upgrade again. It's great you are asking a lot of questions, it means you actually care about keeping those living things alive. Ask a lot of people on here, corals and fish do start to "grow on you" and become pets just like any other, and when one dies......sucks very much, especially when so much time and money go into this "hobbie". :wink: ANyways, Nice job Janky and talk to you soon.

Will

 

[janky]

Everything is still lookin great... the kryptonites are opening and growing and the busted one seems to be repairing itself pretty quickly. The favia is growing over it's frag rock and looking really healthy, bright colored, and raised. The sexies are partyin like crazy, and my crab comes out in the open a lot too.

Also got that book and have been reading random chapters from it every night before I crash to stay up on my learning curve SW is definitely a change of pace from the FW stuff I'm used to!

So just a couple of questions; is it too early to look into some shrooms/zoas? The water parameters seem stable and since I jumped into some more difficult LPS instead of these "starter" softies, I figure maybe it couldn't hurt to add a couple small ones now?
I have researched them a bit and everyone says they don't filter feed like the canes/favias do, but they just eat organic elements from the water? Does that sound right? Do you guys supplement or spot feed them anything?

Also - I've been testing the calcium in my tank and it reads like 640 or so... it's off the chart for how many drops/how many ppm Ca. I had my gf try it too to see if maybe I messed something up, and she got the same results. Since the chart doesn't go that high we're just extrapolating the math and estimating it to be around 640.

Is that good or bad??

 

[jezzeaepi]

Also - I've been testing the calcium in my tank and it reads like 640 or so... it's off the chart for how many drops/how many ppm Ca. I had my gf try it too to see if maybe I messed something up, and she got the same results. Since the chart doesn't go that high we're just extrapolating the math and estimating it to be around 640.

Is that good or bad??

There is no way your calcium is that high. You would have had a "snowstorm" and it would have precipitated out of the water and plummeted back to normal levels(and caused damage to your coral). Either a bad test kit, or "user error" (=P). What brand test kit are you using? I only use elos test kits(because I don't trust the rest), but maybe someone else can help you out with the brand you are using.

I would get your water figured out first before adding corals. Also what are the rest of your test parameters? You should be testing calcium/alkalinity/salinity the most frequently(maybe once a week for a system like yours). Magnesium and nitrates maybe once a month(until you get in to SPS). For testing salinity, you should have a refractometer + some pin point calibration fluid to make sure it is actually accurate.

 

[NC2WA]

Ca level should not be higher than 450...take water to lfs and have them test it
What is Alk and pH?

 

[IPisces]

Glad to hear things are doing better. Yeah, I'd take some water to an LFS for testing. 640 is just crazy high. Like they said, check your alk and mag and pH also.

 

[janky]

we're using the API liquid test kit. It's the one where you put in drops and count how many it takes for the indicator to turn purple/blue/blurple. It took about 32 drops. The chart stops at like 26, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of 500+
I assumed that's wrong so yea, maybe I can have a LFS test it tomorrow

TBH, I've never tested alk. I can go pick up a test kit if necessary, but on my FW tanks I never needed to.
PH is at 8.3-8.4 steady. Salinity is at 1.027-1.028 steady. ammonia/NO2/3 are zeros

 

[janky]

been slacking on the update... had someone very knowledgeable test my params;
dKh is 9.3
Ca is actually 620 (wow)
Mg 1430

Sooo we narrowed down the Ca issue and it's either 1) the crappy live rock I bought from petco lol or 2) The fact that I'm using reef salt mix and have nothing in there really utilizing the excess Ca.
To be safe I switched to regular salt instead of the reef salt mixture. I'll see if that helps and if not I'll look into replacing the 2 rocks.


A couple of questions for preparing down the road;

What are some good glass cleaners? Snails I'd assume? I have a bumble bee now, but he hangs on the rocks and never really gets the glass (I've been getting brown algae spots that develop little hairs, but I've been scrubbing them down pretty religiously)

Do you guys think that once everything stabilizes out and I'm knowledgeable enough I could go with a bengai cardinal and two-spot goby for livestock? Will that cardinal get too big for my tank?




OH - also, does anyone want a butthole of an emerald crab? He's constantly harassing my corals, and I'd rather rehome him than chance it. I could just get some less aggressive hermits or something.

If you want him, pm me and it'd have to be around the Tacoma area... I could probably drive a half hour or so either direction, but not really looking to travel hours to give away a crab.

 

[jezzeaepi]

You should test your saltwater after mixing to see if maybe it is a bad batch of salt? Also, sometimes there is some settling with salt mix so you have to shake the bag/bucket up a bit before you start using it.

The best glass cleaner is a good skimmer, careful feedings, and an algae scraper

 

[Saltwater Stu]

(I've been getting brown algae spots that develop little hairs, but I've been scrubbing them down pretty religiously)

Do you guys think that once everything stabilizes out and I'm knowledgeable enough I could go with a bengai cardinal and two-spot goby for livestock? Will that cardinal get too big for my tank?

Does the fact that he's still getting hair algae outbreaks mean the tank is still cycling and he probably shouldn't put any coral in?

 

[IPisces]

Does the fact that he's still getting hair algae outbreaks mean the tank is still cycling and he probably shouldn't put any coral in?

No, my tanks have been running for years, I still get algae on the glass. And I started getting hair algae in one just recently that has been running for over a year. It is mostly excess nutrients.

Margarite snails, Turbo snails, Astrea snails are all great for cleaning the glass and rock.
That crab is probably eating algae off from around the corals. Thats a good thing. Any type of crab is going to irritate the coral at some time. I have a couple scarlet reef crabs that are all over the zoas quite often. and perching in the sps. Little blue legged crabs are not to bad.

 

[janky]

You should test your saltwater after mixing to see if maybe it is a bad batch of salt? Also, sometimes there is some settling with salt mix so you have to shake the bag/bucket up a bit before you start using it.

The best glass cleaner is a good skimmer, careful feedings, and an algae scraper

Well, I definitely underfeed if anything. Since I only have a cuc in there I just toss in like 4 or 5 marine pellets every 3 days or so. I spot feed my favia/candy canes mysis shrimp eod, and any remnants of that I imagine get eaten by the cuc.
A skimmer.. eh. I don't wanna pay much for one on this tiny tank because I know realistically I'm going to upgrade lol
If I bought one I'd want one capable of going up to the larger tanks, and that'd just be overkill/ugly on a 12 hex

Does the fact that he's still getting hair algae outbreaks mean the tank is still cycling and he probably shouldn't put any coral in?

I hope not! lol this things been done cycling for like 2-3 months now. cycled it for a good month or so.. it's possible that when I switched the substrate it started a new cycle, but I stayed on top of the params I could measure and everything is legit now.

No, my tanks have been running for years, I still get algae on the glass. And I started getting hair algae in one just recently that has been running for over a year. It is mostly excess nutrients.

Margarite snails, Turbo snails, Astrea snails are all great for cleaning the glass and rock.
That crab is probably eating algae off from around the corals. Thats a good thing. Any type of crab is going to irritate the coral at some time. I have a couple scarlet reef crabs that are all over the zoas quite often. and perching in the sps. Little blue legged crabs are not to bad.

Well, as long as the algae doesn't go nuts and take over I think it's fine, I just have to scrub extra when I do WC's.
The crab was literally laying on top of my favia the other day, and the favia did NOT like that. I just feel like after the fish I had in there and him being all over my corals I don't wanna take a chances. He may just be an aggressive crab...

 

[janky]

Oh, also I may up north today towards BRA if anyone would like to rehome this wonderful (yet slightly aggressive) emerald crab.

 

[IPisces]

Check w/BRA, they may take it.

 

[Saltwater Stu]

So if he's not overfeeding (excess nutrients) and still getting algae, must be cycling still right? Every time he changes something its going to cycle, and it sounds like a lot has been getting changed in there recently. Just making observations here, tell me if I'm off base.

 

[jezzeaepi]

So if he's not overfeeding (excess nutrients) and still getting algae, must be cycling still right? Every time he changes something its going to cycle, and it sounds like a lot has been getting changed in there recently. Just making observations here, tell me if I'm off base.

Cycling has to do with bacteria rather then algae growth. You can have a fully cycled tank that has been around for years that has visible algae growth, which means you have excess nutrients(nitrates as opposed to nitrites and ammonia), not an ongoing cycle.

Cycling has to do with the amount of bacteria in the tank. Lets say you have a freshly set up tank, and add a bunch of live rock and sand that has decaying nutrients in it. Since there are no bacteria in place, the nutrients begin to break down rather quickly and turn in to ammonia which fouls the water. It eventually turns in to nitrites, and then to nitrates. This is the cycle that kills live stock since they don't do well with fluctuating, measurable levels of ammonia. This cycle doesn't happen just once either, it may happen several times before the tank reaches an equilibrium. Think of it like this, you have lots of nutrients, and then no bacteria. The bacteria levels begin to rise as they multiply and consume available food, which stops it from turning in to ammonia, and nitrites, and converts it directly to nitrates(which are the desired end product of the cycle). As the bacteria consumes all available nutrients, they will eventually run out of food, and some will begin to die off(since people don't add nutrients while the tank is cycling). This can start another "mini cycle." You are finished cycling when all of your mini-cycles are complete.

A tank that is still maturing(probably less then 6 months old) can go through little mini cycles every time you add fish. This is because, by adding a new fish, you are increasing the amount of nutrients your bacteria have to deal with every day, and it may take a few weeks for the tank to fully catch up. This is why we suggest only adding one fish at a time. You can definitely cause a cycle in an immature tank by adding a bunch of fish at once.

Peace,
Jesse

 

[janky]

My understand is this; and correct me if I'm wrong, because I am new to saltwater (but have freshwater/biology experience)

The cycle's purpose is to develop beneficial bacteria that break down ammonia and nitrogens, jezz explained that better that I could.
Algae grows from nutrients/light just like a plant would. For example, I have a tank in my kitchen that's fully planted and has been cycled for over 8 month and it still grows algae and occasionally gets green water blooms (I don't keep up on WC's as much as I should to be honest).
I'm making an educated guess that my over-abundance of light in that tank, coupled with enough nutrients and waste in the sandbed allows for algae to grow.
However, you can test that tank at any time and the basic parameters simply do not fluctuate (due to the bacteria buildup doing an excellent job of keeping the chemistry in check)
Not to mention our shrimp/snails in there breed like mad and seem to be thriving

 

[janky]

Well, the calcium is going down! We're at about 540 now lol... started using regular salt instead of reef salt mix.
the corals are all doing great, our favia is growing over the edges of the rock, and everything looks pretty colorful/healthy..

except..

how do I get zoas to open up? I got a frag that just doesn't wanna cooperate. I gave it a RO water dip and some copepods (i think?) came off, but nothing too alarming.
There are two or three polyps that just BARELY wanna peek out, but nothing really OPENS and thrives. I have another very small colony in there (4 polyps) that I got from a friend and it's doing great, they all open wide and are super bright..

any ideas?

 

[Derbird]

Well, the calcium is going down! We're at about 540 now lol... started using regular salt instead of reef salt mix.
the corals are all doing great, our favia is growing over the edges of the rock, and everything looks pretty colorful/healthy..

except..

how do I get zoas to open up? I got a frag that just doesn't wanna cooperate. I gave it a RO water dip and some copepods (i think?) came off, but nothing too alarming.
There are two or three polyps that just BARELY wanna peek out, but nothing really OPENS and thrives. I have another very small colony in there (4 polyps) that I got from a friend and it's doing great, they all open wide and are super bright..

any ideas?

I am no expert but this is what has worked for me

I have found that zoa's can be a bit picky. I always dip them when I get a new one. Way too many pests for these little beauties. I use ReVive, it was recomended to me by a guy who is really in to the zoa's and I have been suprized by how much comes off of them. If a colony is looking a bit sad or has not opened for a while a iodine dip seems to perk them up and make for a happy coral. Just be sure to use the quality stuff made for corals. The ones at the grocery store have a lot of impuritys in there that my harm your zoo's.

This is why I don't attach them to my main rock work. They are on smaller rocks I can remove if needed.

 

[IPisces]

Derbird, that all sounds like really good info. Thanks.

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2

 

[janky]

Thanks Der.
I'll probably ask about something at the LFS then and look into doing an iodine dip. Yeah, I don't have any zoas attached... they're "wedged" into the rocks The one that isn't cooperating is on a frag plug circle thing that fits at the base of one of the rocks.

We'll try that out and see how it goes! I definitely think something's on them/in them because the snails and shrimps are all over them...