Fungus??

[BTTRFLYGRL]

STEVE!!!! YOU ARE DA MAN!!!!!!!!!!
I just checked on him, the growth is half the size!!!! [insert jumping smiley here]

I am so excited! I realize he's not out of the woods yet but what a wonderful sight! I am getting ready to do another treatment. I unfortunatly only have 7 capsulse left...I was thinking of just filling the 20 gallon up halfway..that would be 10 gallons. I presume the dose would then be cut in half at 3 capsules? I have ordered some Kanaplex, furan-2 and Neoplex but they won't get here in time so this is the best way to finish this treatment [i think]


Again,YOU DA MAN!!!!

Thank you soooooo much

Check back later!

 

[steve-s]

Excellent news!!

Yes you can reduce the water volume by half but I would use 4 pills of the 7 today and that would leave three for tomorrows dose.

Just remember when doing the water change today, you need to account for the 50% drop in volume so after you reduce the water level, still dilute the QT water with some fresh SW to complete what would have been a normal water change... make sense...

Keep working on the feeding side of it as well. Do you have something other than the cyclop eeze you could try? Have you soaked the foods in the vitamin?

Cheers
Steve

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Hi Steve! I need that Smiley!!

I just changed 60% of the water [maybe a little more] added fresh and I added four tabs. I have a canister filter running so I guess I need to account for that water also. I added more Vita chem. I will try some more foods when I feed my other tanks
He seems more alert as well, good sign!!
I'll let you know if he eats anything else..I will soak todays food in Selcon

tHANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU!!!!!

I'll be back later!!

 

[steve-s]

Wish granted....

http://www.bestsmileys.com/pageindex.htm

Cheers
Steve

 

[Boomer]

Steve

Dye-test

I know you have heard of gram tests, so think that way. One thing about lympho is that it will not retain a dye. One of the common methods is to apply some methylene blue to the area. If it takes the MB it is fungus or bacteria, as lympho can not absorb the MB.

True, I was being a little consevative but my understanding of this kind of med is although it can be used at much higher dosages, a 300 mg/gal range should be reserved for short (1-2 hr) baths. Ideally 100 mg/gal to a max of 135 mg/gal for prolonged exposure (3-7 days) due to this type of meds ability to interefere with normal immune function over the long term... My concern was with the lack of foods/reduced immune function, the cure might do more harm at those levels.

Noga, Bassleer all give the dosages I gave for a 3 day period with a 50 % water change each day with the same dosage applied each day. The 2 hr dosage only comes from Stoskopf with ref. The concern you give for toxicity deals with injection modes of delivery, which causes nephrotoxicty in some fish. One can say the same ( toxic) with Nitrofur's which are even worse. Your concern about the fish may have merit but the disease may begin to increase with a substd lower dosage and my produce an immunity to the drug. I not saying dump in 300 mg / l but at least 100-150 mg / l. Half dosages is not a good idea Don't forget that many of these dosages are for FW and in SW many drugs need to have a double dosage compared to FW.

What ever the case at least it seems here fish is doing much better know.


A side note for you

I kwow that you want Herwig but it is not worth $175 by any means and is 26 years old. I would send you mine for free before I would let you pay that much. Some are selling it new for $225 and that is nonsense, as is $150 used

 

[steve-s]

Thanks Boomer. On the books, I am leaning more towards Noga's book. Much better up to date info and a more appropriately priced. I'm trying to hold out for a used hardcover but have only found used softcover.... new is approx $150.00 CAD

I will still be on the look out for a cheap copy of Herwig's book as I think having the comparison would be an interesting read.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Boomer]

Steve

Nelson's book is mostly kinda like a dictionary on drugs for the hobby

Composition

Synonyms

Dosage

Use of Treatment

Remarks

Ref

I will also keep an eye out for you

 

[Boomer]

Ok, stevey :lol:

How about new, soft cover $40.95 or $57.95 hardcover I'll let you sweat a few hours and then PM you

HANDBOOK OF DRUGS AND CHEMICALS USED IN THE TREATMENT OF FISH DISEASES: A Manual of Fish Pharmacology and Materia Medica
By Nelson Herwig
Published 1979
288 pp., 2 il., 6 tables

DESCRIPTION
By Nelson Herwig, Houston Zoological Gardens, Houston, Texas. With Forewords by Louis Garibaldi and R. E. Wolke. Professional fish culturists, amateur aquarists and veterinarians will all acclaim this unique compilation of drugs useful in the treatment of fish diseases. The author has assembled the widely scattered knowledge of fish pharmacology and organized it into a logical and easily accessible format. The main part of the text covers therapeutics, other than drug or chemotherapy, in fish diseases; drug therapy, including drug sources, active ingredients, forms of medication, methods of administration, and calculation of dosages and solutions; action or uses of drugs, with data on classification by activity or action of fish, antiseptics and disinfectants, chemotherapy, and antibiotic therapy; and toxicology. The remainder of the book, devoted to materia medica, offers annotated dosages and treatments and an alphabetical listing of drugs and synonyms.

 

[Boomer]

How about Noga for $ List Price: $99.99

 

[steve-s]

Ok, stevey :lol:

How about new, soft cover $40.95 or $57.95 hardcover I'll let you sweat a few hours and then PM you

:lol: ... Googles my fiend too...

http://www.ccthomas.com/details.cfm?P_ISBN=039803852x

Thanks for the key words though... :badgrin:

I knew about the Noga price but don't forget, they are in USD, the price I noted above was after shipping/currencey conversion. I will still probabley get the new one, just waiting on my tax refund.

Your the best as always Boomer. Thanks!!

Cheers
Steve

 

[Boomer]

The wonders of Google's

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Okay..last dose of Kanaycn was yesterday. He seems to be at a standstill. I now have more Furan-2 and next week I will have some Kanaplex [seachems kanamycin sulfate] and Neoplex ..I thought it good to give the guy a little break but if I see no improvement which med would be best?

Oh I also have Amoxicillan [sp] I have had that awhile so I'll have to check the date
Thanks Steve!!!!!

 

[Terry B]

Keep in mind that many antibiotics have to be used at double the dose for freshwater when used in saltwater. Since the fish seems to be at a standstill using kanamycin it sounds like you are on the right tract using an antibiotic. You just need a different antibiotic or a stronger dose. You miught try some Furanase or Maracyn-Two. If you are treating the fish in full strength saltwater with Maracyn-Two then double the dose (the dose suggested on the box for the first day only should be used EACH day). Have you been adding Beta glucan to the food?

Terry B

 

[Terry B]

Forgot to mention that amoxicillian is not a good choice.

Terry B

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Hello Terry,

I haven't been adding Beta Glucan to the food. He is having trouble eating and usually only gets one or two little cyclopeeze pieces down..I was going to GNC today, is beta Glucan a liquid? would it help to add it to the water? I have been adding Vita -chem.
I got my shipment of Furan- 2 yesterday so I am ready to go with that. I had to order the kanaplex and Neoplex from another retailer so it won't be here till Mon or Tues

I don't even know why I ever ordered that Amoxicillian, I have never used it

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Okay....my Furan capsules are 60mg Nitrofurazone..if I use Steves 15mg per gallon, I would be using 5 capsules for 20 gallons for 5 days with no water changes

Or as Terry suggested to double the dose. which would be 4 capsules

I would prefer to do daily water changes to keep ammonia down, I usually do 50% while medicating

So I was thinking of doing the double dose with daily 50% water changes..would this work okay? Furan-2 suggest 4 days of treatment

 

[steve-s]

If the Furan is used, I would dose at a rate of 2 1/2 caps Furan 2 each day with a good sized water change (25%+) prior to each new dose. Do this for about 4-5 days. You have to be careful with this one as it can be harmful to the fish and the med does not break down as easily as most. Different than I posted above but I think this will be more effective and I think your biofilter is probabaley non existant by now. If the angel begins to eat at all, predissolve the med before adding to the tank in a small glass and add a few tablespoons to the food and soak for a few hours. This meds works much better when injested (as do most). Dump the remainder in the tank.

If you keep the water level in the QT at 10 gal instead of the 20 gal, make sure you account for that in the dosage. Target 7-9mg/gal added daily (predissolved) with the water changes before each new dose.

Cheers
Steve

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Well, my little Potters is still holding on..this makes me even more sad seeing this obviously healthy fish that would have otherwise been thriving had it not been injured..I know Potters are usually touchy, but I can see this guy is tough...I hope he pulls through

Anyway..I decided after doing a lot more reading that I would like to try Neomycin/Nifurpirinol combo. I have seen it recommended for similiar issues. I should have my Neoplex today and I have ordered Furanase for overnight delivery, should be here tomorrow...I may go ahead and start the Neoplex today..I am not sure Seachems recommended dose, I will check back before dosing

Thanks, Kim


ps....Terry suggested Furanase, but I thought it was a med similair to Furan-2...the name fooled me

 

[steve-s]

Nifurpirinol (Furanace/Furanase) will be affective if this is a fugal issue while the Neomycin sulphate will look after the gram negative bacteria. Combined together they do make a potent "cure all" so to speak. FWIW, the Furan 2 should have accomplished the same goal although not as potent.

Seachems recommended dosage of Neoplex is one scoop/2gal of water volume. I have absolutely no idea what the "scoop" size is so please include that with your next post if you can once it arrives. Basically your target with Neomycin is 250 mg/gal. Be very watchful of your water quality during this process as the neomycin will completely wipe out the biofilter if there anything left of it at this point. Also be sure to use no overhead light with the Nifurpirinol, it is photosensitive and will cause it to break down.

Cheers
Steve

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Hi Steve

Just got my 'drugs'..The container has the same directions. One level measure to every 2 gallons. Repeat once a week for up to three weeks. I sent an inquiry to Seachem, not sure how long it will take to get a response. I will go ahead and add their recomended dose. I still need to do daily water changes to keep water in check so weekly doses won't work for me..I will let you know when I hear from Seachem
Thanks again!!
Kim