I had a similar experience with the socks, they clog to quickly for me, but are very effective.
Going skimmerless
- Thread starter DonW
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I had a similar experience with the socks, they clog to quickly for me, but are very effective.
Don, not trying to argue at all but the 20-30% is not a proven fact. It was just a test done by an independent using old technology and new saltwater
It was interesting but didn't prove alot to me. Definately a step in the right direction.
DonW
R.I.P.
Don, not trying to argue at all but the 20-30% is not a proven fact. It was just a test done by an independent using old technology and new saltwater
I do agree that newer skimmers would have been a better choice and would have made alot of people happier. On the flip side I doubt manufacturers would have been willing to donate or even loan newer skimmers for a test that may or may not actually discredit themselves. Part one of the artical really shows more in my opinoin and backs up part two. The actual lab testing is not outdated and is accurate so those numbers show alot.
On my tank in Feb of this year TOC's measured 1.4 w/swc160 which is quite high and at the end of April 1.3 w/tunze still high. I think once I get the tank tapered down to 5 micron socks I'll send in another sample. At $65 a pop I cant do it very often.
Don
Skimmy
SKIM FU
Don, not trying to argue at all but the 20-30% is not a proven fact. It was just a test done by an independent using old technology and new saltwater
that test was worthless,
and any professional in the scientific community would tell you the same...
I've got absolutely no problem with your skimmerless tank, I'm sure it will work,
i just take issue with these broad, unproven statements/comparisons about skimming...
complete anecdotal conjecture, with a smidgen of meaningless, high school level lab work thrown in...
the fact that you posted it and used it somewhat as motivation for the thread is where you derailed your own thread...
you should have just left the skimmers out of it and done your experiment....
i am actually curious as anybody to see the results of your skimmerless tank.
i had many myself in the 90's for soft coral that were totally natural or refugium filtered, so i know it can be done.
the nutrients have to leave the system somehow, and I'm curious how much of the work
is actually being done by the live rock, sand, and weekly 25% wc, versus your 60x mechanical filtration.
veralteaquatics
Design and Supplies
but it's not a plastic cylinder
Well if you can come up with an in-home wave/beach system for a couple hundred bucks; I'd love to see it?
Well if you can come up with an in-home wave/beach system for a couple hundred bucks; I'd love to see it?
Saltyfish
Banned
They are called Water Pipes Don not Bong
For us old people they are bongs. Shows you how long we have been out of that life.
Saltyfish
Banned
I had socks on my tanks and everytime I did it the tank would go south in a month or two. When i remove the media and just leave the sump, skimmer, rocks, sand and ozone I have had great success.
They are great for polishing the water but I personally will never use them for any long periods of time on my systems.
They are great for polishing the water but I personally will never use them for any long periods of time on my systems.
Darthv247
Well-known member
im sure a bong could be turned into a skimmer ! just make sure and clean it first lol. skimmerless can be done and is being done by lots. I just find it to be easier to use a skimmer and why not save yourself some of the headache. Some of those early skimmerless all natural systems were awsome and pioneered how we do things these days. But man were they a lot of work and those plenums have sure been proven to no advantage or disadvantage
I take it your gonna go with a DSB on this tank right ? I would. You will need the denitrification.
I take it your gonna go with a DSB on this tank right ? I would. You will need the denitrification.
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DonW
R.I.P.
The article from AA was the real motivation behind even considering this. I do believe the lab results from Ken's tank say alot and definatly beat the eyeball method currently used by hobbiest. Hopefully this was just the first test and they will do more testing. Please feal free to post results from skimmer test done by those in the scientific community. Id love to see some test that are done by others that are not just visual results. The comment I post came my interpretation of the AA article derived from real not high school lab work. Only the drying of skimmate was a home experiment and yes your right its not 100% accurate but since we measure salininty based on weight it really cant be all that far off to think we cant do the same with skimmate.
TOC reading along with the other parameters poster are results from spectra labs in Tacoma, I highly doubt they are not accurate since they do this for a living.
Since feeding and bioload are controlled, feeding is limited to 1/8tsp Spectrum small pellets and water changes are controlled and limited to 33.2lbs rodi water twice weekly with all salt comming from the same batch.
I already know the system couldnt get the toc's below 1.4 with above regimin so will have to wait and see next time the water is tested for toc's wether or not the skimmer actually worked better than the socks and high flow.
If I were to use the same method as everyone else including yourself which is purely by eyeball. Id have to say without a doubt the socks are performing much better especially with water be forced through at such a high rate. For sure they collect more actual solids this is just plain visable by lack of solids left in the sump and overflows. This is at 25 micron vs the typical 100 micron. By the end of the month I'll be switching to 5 micron then I'll have the water tested again. After 5 micron I'll switch to 1 micron and will test again. The only concern I have with this entire thing is wether or not there will be enough solids to actually feed the corals.
Don
DonW
R.I.P.
Darthv247
Well-known member
ahh. didnt realize you had such a low bio load. just a few fish and corals, yeah no need for a skimmer you can keep up with that just through maintenence.
DonW
R.I.P.
When you say go south what do you mean? How many days would you run the sock before changing? What was the flow rate through the sock on what size tank? What micron sock?
Don
DonW
R.I.P.
This is the first shot at a brand new 25micron sock after 24 hrs. I'd guess it could have flowed for another three or 4 days before plugging. They are finally catching up with all the crud the Tunze was leaving behind. The old used socks at first the stuff would be so thick you could scrape it off. At this rate the I can switch to the 5 micron sock quicker than I thought.
Adam Black
More cow bell
Were ready for a update Don. Thanks for sharing.
DonW
R.I.P.
Well nothing really to update nothing has changed other than the plate coral ate my scooter dragonet. The filter socks are barely dirty after the second day and the tank is just as healthy without the skimmer. Its definatly cleaner. I need to take a trip up to Barrier and get some more corals in the next few weeks.
Don
