tri_pod_rod
Well-known member
seachem REEF SALT has worked for me really well never had a problem with water params or cloudiness
H2Ocean salt question
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FishOnTheBrainC
Active member
I was using IO for a long time, and I think H2Ocean is a far superior salt mix compared. I wasn't really happy with the color of my corals and how short lived the happiness of my corals was. It also didn't mix well and left a lot of sediment in the bottom of my buckets after days of mixing even. After a few water changes with H2Ocean, there colors were much more vivid. I still dose but not nearly as much. I have to since I frequently have long periods of time without a water change due to a 6-8 week stent at a time up in Alaska. The better half doses, tops off, feeds, checks SG while I am gone, However she has a hard time doing WC's unless there is a problem(never yet.. knock on wood). When I come back tank is much happier with H2O then with IO
treehugger
Well-known member
I've been testing a bunch of salts to decide what one my maintenance company will be using:
Aquavistro Salinity: Salt left a really thick white residue in my 300 gal mixing container and never really cleared up. The levels tested damn close to what they claimed which was nice but I didn't like the fact that when I filled a quarantine tank, the residue settled on the glass and left the same thick white residue. Salinity also smells like cat urine when you open the bucket and mix it.
Brightwell: Mixed up cleaner then the Salinity and tested at about the exact same levels. Also had the cat urine smell but not nearly as strong. Both of these salts seem to be very anhydrous mixes and the heat they generate when you mix them is impressive.
Tropic Marin: Mixed clear, parameters all tested in an acceptable range.
H2Ocean: Very similar to the Tropic Marin but did have a bit of a dirtier mix. Definitely maintained good levels.
I have not tried IO in awhile but have heard they finally got their act together after some botched attempts at changing their formula.
Aquacraft salts: All I can say is these salts are like buying salt from a snake oil salesman and are dirty when they mix and the parameters are so terrible you end up spending more on supplements to correct the salts then you paid for the mix (Boomer I'm sure you'll agree give the 1035 blah blah blah process
)
Price wise, most of these salts run about the same (although the Salinity comes in a 225gal mix bucket so is a bit pricier per bucket) All others mix about 150-160 gallons with one bucket.
Aquavistro Salinity: Salt left a really thick white residue in my 300 gal mixing container and never really cleared up. The levels tested damn close to what they claimed which was nice but I didn't like the fact that when I filled a quarantine tank, the residue settled on the glass and left the same thick white residue. Salinity also smells like cat urine when you open the bucket and mix it.
Brightwell: Mixed up cleaner then the Salinity and tested at about the exact same levels. Also had the cat urine smell but not nearly as strong. Both of these salts seem to be very anhydrous mixes and the heat they generate when you mix them is impressive.
Tropic Marin: Mixed clear, parameters all tested in an acceptable range.
H2Ocean: Very similar to the Tropic Marin but did have a bit of a dirtier mix. Definitely maintained good levels.
I have not tried IO in awhile but have heard they finally got their act together after some botched attempts at changing their formula.
Aquacraft salts: All I can say is these salts are like buying salt from a snake oil salesman and are dirty when they mix and the parameters are so terrible you end up spending more on supplements to correct the salts then you paid for the mix (Boomer I'm sure you'll agree give the 1035 blah blah blah process
)Price wise, most of these salts run about the same (although the Salinity comes in a 225gal mix bucket so is a bit pricier per bucket) All others mix about 150-160 gallons with one bucket.
Boomer
Well-known member
Yes I agree with the " blah, blah crap he toots
Born a skeptic ? No, born not to believe in marketing hype and gibberish nonsense
Born a skeptic ? No, born not to believe in marketing hype and gibberish nonsense
jeffkeith_us
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2005
- Messages
- 104
I like D&D H2Ocean because I culture various species of greenwater to supplement feed filter feeders such-as porifera and radiating filament fanworms in the saltwater filtration of my research systems. Also, I use it for water changes.
I'm home in the Philippines now and the salt we get here is rock-salt directly from the ocean. It has the same film as the D&D salt. which tells me where they're getting it. From the ocean, just like I am. However, in the states if I couldn't get H2Ocean I would rather have Pro-Reef even at $85. Please let me add that Sea Chem Reef Salt and IO Reef Crystals will certainly do quite well, but you'll need to run all of your tests on them. Which is another reason I'm so glad to be home. Sea salt here is about $11 for three 25 kilo bags; delivered to my house!
I use regular city water, for culturing alga, in order to get the phosphates on the cheep. D&D salt is just too clean, so you must provide for such when using it in this wise. For direct aquarium application use in RODI or DH2O I mix H2Ocean full strength 1.024 (1.026 for Red Sea species) at 27C for about 5 minutes with a 500 GPH or larger powerhead.
Ron, if you read this, I know Steve was using H2Ocean in his coral culturing systems in Rancho, because I was there in his shop just before I came home. So you might give H2Ocean a try in some of your tests. I'd love to see what you come up with.
I'm home in the Philippines now and the salt we get here is rock-salt directly from the ocean. It has the same film as the D&D salt. which tells me where they're getting it. From the ocean, just like I am. However, in the states if I couldn't get H2Ocean I would rather have Pro-Reef even at $85. Please let me add that Sea Chem Reef Salt and IO Reef Crystals will certainly do quite well, but you'll need to run all of your tests on them. Which is another reason I'm so glad to be home. Sea salt here is about $11 for three 25 kilo bags; delivered to my house!
I use regular city water, for culturing alga, in order to get the phosphates on the cheep. D&D salt is just too clean, so you must provide for such when using it in this wise. For direct aquarium application use in RODI or DH2O I mix H2Ocean full strength 1.024 (1.026 for Red Sea species) at 27C for about 5 minutes with a 500 GPH or larger powerhead.
Ron, if you read this, I know Steve was using H2Ocean in his coral culturing systems in Rancho, because I was there in his shop just before I came home. So you might give H2Ocean a try in some of your tests. I'd love to see what you come up with.
jeffkeith_us
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2005
- Messages
- 104
Red Sea Salt Mix
I think Red sea "Coral Pro" is a good (as-in "OK") salt mix for reef aquaria, one of the better that I've used.
Be sure to get the water temperature in your aquarium and the ambient room temperature to 71F or about 22C before you check specific gravity. I have and use a "deep 6" and a floating hydrometer, but the one I really trust is my refractometer calibrated to "0" with distilled water (DH2O). Also I don't trust refractometers with automatic compensation for shifts in ambient temperature. Control the room temperature too.
You should be able to find a used copy of "Natural Reef Aquariums" ISBN-13: 9781890087005 or ISBN: 1890087009 by John Tullock and Martin Moe for about $5 online, which has some of the best instruction on calculating and adjusting salinity. Salinity is what your livestock will be feeling the effects of and will be most affected by. You see, there's more to it than 2/3's cup of salt per gallon of water.
I personally like the salinity to be 1.024 at a pH of 8.4 in water that has a temperature of 71F and an ambient room temperature 68F to 75F for deep water invertebrates and species of wrasse. For clownfish and anemone the water can be up to 82F so the room can be warmer, but salinity must still be at 1.024 or 1.023. Which is why it's good understand converting ppt of salt, pH and temperature to salinity. The charts in Tullock and Moe's book make that easy. To tell the truth I copied those charts and put them in the lab.
I think Red sea "Coral Pro" is a good (as-in "OK") salt mix for reef aquaria, one of the better that I've used.
Be sure to get the water temperature in your aquarium and the ambient room temperature to 71F or about 22C before you check specific gravity. I have and use a "deep 6" and a floating hydrometer, but the one I really trust is my refractometer calibrated to "0" with distilled water (DH2O). Also I don't trust refractometers with automatic compensation for shifts in ambient temperature. Control the room temperature too.
You should be able to find a used copy of "Natural Reef Aquariums" ISBN-13: 9781890087005 or ISBN: 1890087009 by John Tullock and Martin Moe for about $5 online, which has some of the best instruction on calculating and adjusting salinity. Salinity is what your livestock will be feeling the effects of and will be most affected by. You see, there's more to it than 2/3's cup of salt per gallon of water.
I personally like the salinity to be 1.024 at a pH of 8.4 in water that has a temperature of 71F and an ambient room temperature 68F to 75F for deep water invertebrates and species of wrasse. For clownfish and anemone the water can be up to 82F so the room can be warmer, but salinity must still be at 1.024 or 1.023. Which is why it's good understand converting ppt of salt, pH and temperature to salinity. The charts in Tullock and Moe's book make that easy. To tell the truth I copied those charts and put them in the lab.
Boomer
Well-known member
but the one I really trust is my refractometer calibrated to "0" with distilled water (DH2O).
You can not calibrate a refractometer with distilled water for seawater salinity, as almost all refracts are set to NaCl, Table salt, which is not the same as seawater. Most will always be 1.5 ppt / 0.0015 Sg to low. You need to get some mock seawater like Pinpoint 53mS. Put a drop of that on the refract and cal so it reads 1.0265 or 35 ppt or 3.5 %
Also I don't trust refractometers with automatic compensation for shifts in ambient temperature. Control the room temperature too.
Why is that research labs do ?
You can not calibrate a refractometer with distilled water for seawater salinity, as almost all refracts are set to NaCl, Table salt, which is not the same as seawater. Most will always be 1.5 ppt / 0.0015 Sg to low. You need to get some mock seawater like Pinpoint 53mS. Put a drop of that on the refract and cal so it reads 1.0265 or 35 ppt or 3.5 %
Also I don't trust refractometers with automatic compensation for shifts in ambient temperature. Control the room temperature too.
Why is that research labs do ?
jeffkeith_us
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2005
- Messages
- 104
DH2O
Table salt is mined from underground salt deposits left by seawater, therefore is more heavily processed to eliminate trace minerals (muck) and usually contains an additive to prevent clumping (my wife says that here in the Philippines they use coconut milk prevent sea salt from clumping). Most table salt mixes also have added iodine, which also appears naturally howbeit only in minute amounts in sea salt.
Hence Boomer is 100% correct about the difference in seawater and brine refractometers, but I don't understand what you're saying about the difference in specific gravity between non iodized table salt (read that "common aquarium salt") and sea salt. By weight, sea salt and table salt contain about the same amount of sodium chloride, nitrogen chlorine or NaCl whichever you prefer.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/molecule/nacl.html
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php
http://web.archive.org/web/20030218...om/fish2/aqfm/1997/nov/features/1/default.asp
http://www.marinedepot.com/Hanna_In...ums-Hanna_Instruments-HN1411-FITEOPRF-vi.html
If anybody likes to tinker, brake the seal on a disposable 1 L Griffin style beaker and fill it with 965 ml of steam distilled pure water at 4 °C (39.2 °F) and standard atmospheric pressure which is 760 mm Hg barometric. Add reagent quality sodium chloride till you fill the beaker to the 1000 ml mark and mix with a stirring rod for about an hour. You will then have the kind of sea water that I've never seen here on the west rim of the Pacific basin and can't understand why they call it "mock sea water". I think my kids and other wild animals are peeing in the ocean.
I trust steam distilled water (DH20) for calibrating my 33.3 ppt seawater refractometer because it brings the refractometer to zero and costs 58 cents per gallon. No guess work, no unexpected changes and it's always going to be zero. Salinity is what the livestock in an aquarium react to and the parts-per-thousand of salt in the water is only one component of salinity. Just take into consideration how your seawater refractometer is set-up and adjust the reading when you're checking specific gravity, which is the only component of salinity a refractometer can tell you. I should have said this in my previous post.
We are not talking about natural seawater; we're talking about aquarium water which tends to get too warm or too cold or have anything else go wrong when we're not looking. I’ll be ready to discuss establishing the conditions of natural seawater when somebody has an aquarium with cubic miles of capacity. These are real home aquaria which tend to have in them minuscule multiples of gallons of RODI, RO, charcoal filtered tap-water or just de-chlorinated tap-water. Also we're only talking about using either non-iodized table salt or not so heavily processed sea salt, not two different species of salts. It's the same salt, all of it, NaCl.
In regard to your question about "Why do research labs have refractometers with automatic compensation for shifts in ambient temperature?" It's nothing to do with the change in refractive index of aqueous solutions. It's because the people in them are like anyone else; if a company, school or government is paying for the toys, you order two most fancy toys. Also labs have a little tag on all such equipment that tells the last calibration date, and an employee or contractor fully certified and equipped to do all such calibration$$$.
Sea salt is produced through evaporation of seawater, usually with little processing, which leaves behind some trace minerals and elements depending on its water source. These minerals add flavor and color to sea salt if you eat it as we do here and give us the little bit of a scum-float in the aquarium water mixing bucket.
Table salt is mined from underground salt deposits left by seawater, therefore is more heavily processed to eliminate trace minerals (muck) and usually contains an additive to prevent clumping (my wife says that here in the Philippines they use coconut milk prevent sea salt from clumping). Most table salt mixes also have added iodine, which also appears naturally howbeit only in minute amounts in sea salt.
Hence Boomer is 100% correct about the difference in seawater and brine refractometers, but I don't understand what you're saying about the difference in specific gravity between non iodized table salt (read that "common aquarium salt") and sea salt. By weight, sea salt and table salt contain about the same amount of sodium chloride, nitrogen chlorine or NaCl whichever you prefer.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/molecule/nacl.html
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php
http://web.archive.org/web/20030218...om/fish2/aqfm/1997/nov/features/1/default.asp
http://www.marinedepot.com/Hanna_In...ums-Hanna_Instruments-HN1411-FITEOPRF-vi.html
If anybody likes to tinker, brake the seal on a disposable 1 L Griffin style beaker and fill it with 965 ml of steam distilled pure water at 4 °C (39.2 °F) and standard atmospheric pressure which is 760 mm Hg barometric. Add reagent quality sodium chloride till you fill the beaker to the 1000 ml mark and mix with a stirring rod for about an hour. You will then have the kind of sea water that I've never seen here on the west rim of the Pacific basin and can't understand why they call it "mock sea water". I think my kids and other wild animals are peeing in the ocean.
I trust steam distilled water (DH20) for calibrating my 33.3 ppt seawater refractometer because it brings the refractometer to zero and costs 58 cents per gallon. No guess work, no unexpected changes and it's always going to be zero. Salinity is what the livestock in an aquarium react to and the parts-per-thousand of salt in the water is only one component of salinity. Just take into consideration how your seawater refractometer is set-up and adjust the reading when you're checking specific gravity, which is the only component of salinity a refractometer can tell you. I should have said this in my previous post.
We are not talking about natural seawater; we're talking about aquarium water which tends to get too warm or too cold or have anything else go wrong when we're not looking. I’ll be ready to discuss establishing the conditions of natural seawater when somebody has an aquarium with cubic miles of capacity. These are real home aquaria which tend to have in them minuscule multiples of gallons of RODI, RO, charcoal filtered tap-water or just de-chlorinated tap-water. Also we're only talking about using either non-iodized table salt or not so heavily processed sea salt, not two different species of salts. It's the same salt, all of it, NaCl.
In regard to your question about "Why do research labs have refractometers with automatic compensation for shifts in ambient temperature?" It's nothing to do with the change in refractive index of aqueous solutions. It's because the people in them are like anyone else; if a company, school or government is paying for the toys, you order two most fancy toys. Also labs have a little tag on all such equipment that tells the last calibration date, and an employee or contractor fully certified and equipped to do all such calibration$$$.
Boomer
Well-known member
I don't understand what you're saying about the difference in specific gravity between non iodized table salt (read that "common aquarium salt") and sea salt. By weight, sea salt and table salt contain about the same amount of sodium chloride, nitrogen chlorine or NaCl whichever you prefer.
A refract is not measuring Sg or Salinity. It is measuring the RI (Refractive Index) of the water. That RI is then converted to a Sg or Salinity based on a NaCl or Seawater scale by that RI conversion.
By weight, sea salt and table salt contain about the same amount of sodium chloride, nitrogen chlorine or NaCl whichever you prefer.
No, table salt is almost pure NaCl @ 35 ppt NaCl. It is half of each and NaCl makes up 30 ppt of seawater
You need to read this. It takes 37.4 grams of NaCl to equal 35 grams of 100 % dehydrated NSW to get a NSW salinity of 35 ppt@ 20 C 1 atm
Reef Aquarium Salinity: Homemade Calibration Standards
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php
In regard to your question about "Why do research labs have refractometers with automatic compensation for shifts in ambient temperature?" It's nothing to do with the change in refractive index of aqueous solutions.
Yes it does. At lower water temps the RI is changed due to density. D is higher at lower temp, and lower at warmed temp and D changes R.I The ATC thus allows one not have to worry about temp variations within reason. Non- ATC refracts MUST be calibrated at calibrated temp and the sample test water needs to be at that temp unless you have temp correction tables.
I trust steam distilled water (DH20) for calibrating my 33.3 ppt seawater refractometer because it brings the refractometer to zero and costs 58 cents per gallon.
You can't unless it is real lab grade refract. Many of these cheap Chinese refracts have issues with optical quality of the glass. In RO/DI or Tri-D water they can be off as much as 4 ppt. A real lab grade 1.5 ppt off.
You posted this;
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php
Did you read it ? I helped write it
We are not talking about natural seawater; we're talking about aquarium water which tends to get too warm or too cold or have anything else go wrong when we're not looking. I’ll be ready to discuss establishing the conditions of natural seawater when somebody has an aquarium with cubic miles of capacity.
I don't need lessons. I have been testing and studying it for 40 years. Do you know what NSW conditions are ?
Salinity is what the livestock in an aquarium react to and the parts-per-thousand of salt in the water is only one component of salinity.
You have a total misunderstanding what salinity is. Rather than me explain it just read this.
What is Salinity
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php
Also we're only talking about using either non-iodized table salt or not so heavily processed sea salt, not two different species of salts. It's the same salt, all of it, NaCl.
ASW is pretty close to NSW and has about the same NaCl ~ 30 ppt of 35 ppt.
Do you know what a salt is chemically ? NaCl, KCl, CaSO4, MgSO4, CaCO3, MgCl MgSO4, etc, etc are all salts. It is when an Cation like Ca++ attaches to a Anion like CO3-- by a Ionic bound = CaCO3 or Ca:CO3, where " : " equals the ionic bond, a positive and negative attraction like iron to a magnet.
"mock sea water"
It is a salt mix which does not have to be the same as NSW that still yields the same Sg, RI, conductivity and Salinity of NSW.
You have a very poor understanding of seawater chemistry. You may want to look at the sticky's I have posted here on the RF Chemistry forum that I moderate.
Reef Chemistry Discussion with Boomer
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72
A refract is not measuring Sg or Salinity. It is measuring the RI (Refractive Index) of the water. That RI is then converted to a Sg or Salinity based on a NaCl or Seawater scale by that RI conversion.
By weight, sea salt and table salt contain about the same amount of sodium chloride, nitrogen chlorine or NaCl whichever you prefer.
No, table salt is almost pure NaCl @ 35 ppt NaCl. It is half of each and NaCl makes up 30 ppt of seawater
You need to read this. It takes 37.4 grams of NaCl to equal 35 grams of 100 % dehydrated NSW to get a NSW salinity of 35 ppt@ 20 C 1 atm
Reef Aquarium Salinity: Homemade Calibration Standards
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php
In regard to your question about "Why do research labs have refractometers with automatic compensation for shifts in ambient temperature?" It's nothing to do with the change in refractive index of aqueous solutions.
Yes it does. At lower water temps the RI is changed due to density. D is higher at lower temp, and lower at warmed temp and D changes R.I The ATC thus allows one not have to worry about temp variations within reason. Non- ATC refracts MUST be calibrated at calibrated temp and the sample test water needs to be at that temp unless you have temp correction tables.
I trust steam distilled water (DH20) for calibrating my 33.3 ppt seawater refractometer because it brings the refractometer to zero and costs 58 cents per gallon.
You can't unless it is real lab grade refract. Many of these cheap Chinese refracts have issues with optical quality of the glass. In RO/DI or Tri-D water they can be off as much as 4 ppt. A real lab grade 1.5 ppt off.
You posted this;
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php
Did you read it ? I helped write it
We are not talking about natural seawater; we're talking about aquarium water which tends to get too warm or too cold or have anything else go wrong when we're not looking. I’ll be ready to discuss establishing the conditions of natural seawater when somebody has an aquarium with cubic miles of capacity.
I don't need lessons. I have been testing and studying it for 40 years. Do you know what NSW conditions are ?
Salinity is what the livestock in an aquarium react to and the parts-per-thousand of salt in the water is only one component of salinity.
You have a total misunderstanding what salinity is. Rather than me explain it just read this.
What is Salinity
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php
Also we're only talking about using either non-iodized table salt or not so heavily processed sea salt, not two different species of salts. It's the same salt, all of it, NaCl.
ASW is pretty close to NSW and has about the same NaCl ~ 30 ppt of 35 ppt.
Do you know what a salt is chemically ? NaCl, KCl, CaSO4, MgSO4, CaCO3, MgCl MgSO4, etc, etc are all salts. It is when an Cation like Ca++ attaches to a Anion like CO3-- by a Ionic bound = CaCO3 or Ca:CO3, where " : " equals the ionic bond, a positive and negative attraction like iron to a magnet.
"mock sea water"
It is a salt mix which does not have to be the same as NSW that still yields the same Sg, RI, conductivity and Salinity of NSW.
You have a very poor understanding of seawater chemistry. You may want to look at the sticky's I have posted here on the RF Chemistry forum that I moderate.
Reef Chemistry Discussion with Boomer
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72
Last edited:
FreakinReefin
Insert idiot comment
Huh?? Ummm can you both repeat that? I didn't get...well..any of that? Is this gonna be on the final?? If it is...I'm so screwed!:?:
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