Hair Algae (what else can I try)

[jntcarter]

125g w/fuge,2@250mh,2@96 act.
I only keep my mh on for about 8 hours.
My fuge is loaded w/clerpa.
I have a phosphate reactor.
I have an ro/di with an auto top off.
I do my water changes with water I get from a friend of mine that he gets from seattle.
I have a calcium reactor.
I just got a ozone controller, but it is not hooked up yet.
Livestock;emeral crabs, fox face, yellow eyed kole, sea hair, lettuce nuda.

I am at the end.....I am ready to drown myself in my tank.
I am open to any and all suggestions.
please help
Hairy and Green in Tumwater

 

[iroll253]

It may be the water you get from seattle. Or low mag. Try changes that you mix yourself.

 

[tike]

Attach a FTS pic so we may get a better idea what we are dealing with here.

 

[ATP123]

I always pull of the algae using a 1/8 hose (I think..its the smallest one) and a plastic tube/pipe thing stuck to it. So while doing water changes, I just pull them off with the help of the small pipe tube thing and the algae than gets automaticly pulled and sucked into the bucket It's alittle slow, but I find it more affective than just trying to get all the algae to just die off...(never happened until I got rid of most of the algae)

I also got a better skimmer which help significantly.

 

[Chichas01]

It would help to know more; like test results for nitrates and phosphates, what kind of test kits you are you using, skimmer (performance?), flow, amount of live rock, what you are feeding...
It's possible that the nutrients feeding the algae are in the rock. There are methods to 'cook' the rock to clean it up but that might be the last method you would employ if it was necessary at all.
We all have the algae battle at some point. It comes and it goes.

 

[mal1099]

When i had a bad hair algea problem it took taking the rocks out and using a tooth brush and scraping it all off. Then my animals were able to finish off what little bit was left. Also are you sure its hair algea and not bryosis (sp) cause that algea is amother to get rid of.

 

[apollothesun]

There's phosphate bound into the live rock feeding the algae. what ive done is bought more live rock, cooked it, not literally, then replaced the cooked rock with the rocks in display and then cooked the hair algae rock. i do this every now and then to keep the rocks porosity.

 

[NWDiver]

I have had good luck with using a toothbrush while doing water changes to knock it back. The snails then take care of whatever is left. It has come back slowly, but I dont have a phos-reactor as yet. Not too much work to do along with the water change.

 

[Skimmy]

I would suspect the source water for your WC's and detritus hanging out under/around the live rock, or in the refugium.
as others have said, if you have a ro/di, then you should be making your own WC water.

 

[Skimmy]

I also got a better skimmer which help significantly.

and, yes... do you have enough skimming going on??
what is your skimmer and tank size??
dosing and feeding regime as well would help.
and do you use GFO or a white aluminium based phosphate absorber??

 

[ATP123]

and, yes... do you have enough skimming going on??
what is your skimmer and tank size??
dosing and feeding regime as well would help.
and do you use GFO or a white aluminium based phosphate absorber??

All of my GHA has died off last fall or winter and most of the livestock is in my new tank, but,
Skimmer is ASM 400+, but used an ETSS 800 for about a week to remove the algae, but its not permanent because of the height of the sump wouldn't let me fit it. Tank size is a 125 with a 40 breeder sump/fuge. Feed twice a day using mysis, nori, and arcti-pods. Sometime formula two and I'm trying to train them to eat life spectrum pellets. I dose Mg, Ph, Ca, KH, buffers when needed and nothing else.

I do not use any obsorbers as of now.

 

[jntcarter]

It would help to know more; like test results for nitrates and phosphates, what kind of test kits you are you using, skimmer (performance?), flow, amount of live rock, what you are feeding...
It's possible that the nutrients feeding the algae are in the rock. There are methods to 'cook' the rock to clean it up but that might be the last method you would employ if it was necessary at all.
We all have the algae battle at some point. It comes and it goes.

Thanks for the reply. Nitrates and phosphates are zero. My test kit is made by Hagen/Nutrafin it has about 20 bottles and came in a hard blue case. My skimmer is a Berlin for 25-250 gallons. I very seldom....never have to dump my overflow can. The air intake is open all the way. I am wondering if my pump is too small or the skimmer is defective. I have bubbles comming up and over the top. I have about 150 lbs. of LR. I am feeding formula one pellets and spirulina flakes maybe every 3-4 days.

 

[jntcarter]

and, yes... do you have enough skimming going on??
what is your skimmer and tank size??
dosing and feeding regime as well would help.
and do you use GFO or a white aluminium based phosphate absorber??

I am sorry I am new to the hobby. What is GFO etc. My skimmer is a Berlin 25-250 gallons and my tank is a 120. I don't think I have enough skimming going on because I never dump my overflow cup. Feeding is 3-4 days with pellets and flakes. I very seldom dose. I was just informed that I need to be dosing Iodine for my corals.

 

[ac7av]

If you have a ro-di why are you getting water from some ware else for water changes? Do you know what the makeup of the water you are getting for water changes is?

 

[braddo]

I am sorry I am new to the hobby. What is GFO etc. My skimmer is a Berlin 25-250 gallons and my tank is a 120. I don't think I have enough skimming going on because I never dump my overflow cup. Feeding is 3-4 days with pellets and flakes. I very seldom dose. I was just informed that I need to be dosing Iodine for my corals.

Your skimmer is undersized for your tank. Red Sea Berlin skimmers are outdated and overrated in their capacity. Skimmer Whisperer could probably recommend you some much better products depending on your budget.

GFO = Granular Ferric Oxide. It’s sold under various name brands or can be bought generically from suppliers like Bulk Reef Supply.

“White aluminum based phosphate absorber” = Aluminum Oxide most commonly sold as SeaChem PhosGuard.

Both GFO and PhosGuard are phosphate absorbing filter media. This media can be put in a filter bag and placed in a high flow area, ideally somewhere in your sump. The preferable and more efficient method is to run GFO or PhosGuard in a Phosphate Reactor. Two Little Fishes PhosBan reactors are popular and inexpensive.

Phosphate is algae fertilizer and even very low levels of phosphate can cause algae outbreaks.

Keep an eye on the foods you are feeding to your fish. Flake and pellet foods are a primary culprit for elevated phosphate levels. Ensure you are using a high quality flake or pellet if you must go with dry food. An alternative may be to purchase or make frozen foods that you thaw and rinse before feeding to your tank.

I wouldn’t worry too much about Iodine or Lugols. I would suggest doing a lot of research on Iodine and Lugols before running out and buying an iodine supplement. Also be prepared that it is one more element you will need to test for if you plan to dose.

 

[Skimmy]

I am sorry I am new to the hobby. What is GFO etc. My skimmer is a Berlin 25-250 gallons and my tank is a 120. I don't think I have enough skimming going on because I never dump my overflow cup. Feeding is 3-4 days with pellets and flakes. I very seldom dose. I was just informed that I need to be dosing Iodine for my corals.

so basically you got no skimming going on...
that is part of the problem.

tell me your budget, and I'll suggest the best skimmer for your buck.

also, I would suggest a GFO based phosphate remover, and carbon running in your phosphate reactor, put the GFO in a small bag within the reactor so you can save it, as you should be changing the carbon out every week, but the GFO typically once a month.

as mentioned, what your feeding is important, but if I understand you correctly, if your only feeding once every 4-5 days then your not over feeding, but yes, you should be using rinsed frozen foods instead of dry foods.

detitus removal and physically removing the algae are important as well,
I suggest saving water from your water changes, (fresh decanted tank water, not slimey detritus water) and pulling your live rock out and scrubbing them down in the buckets of tank water, then rinsing them in a bucket of freshly made salt water. if you do this half a tank at a time, and put the corals on the other side of the tank while your doing the other side, the fish can still hide while you do this. pay special attention to sucking up the detritus underneath the rocks as well.

also, running your tank at the higher end of the acceptable ph and alk range will make life difficult for the algae as well. if it is bryopsis your fighting, then elevated mag to 1500 is a good trick too. any elemental changes like that you want to make slowly of course...

you also might want to consider using some live bacteria to boost the colony existing in your system currently, as this will help outcompete the algae as well. prodibio is a good brand to use...
Iodine is a good thing to dose to the system, I suggest getting the lugol's, and simply follow the directions for your size tank. Warner Marine makes a good lugol's iodine. the soft corals and inverts are the ones predominantly benifiting from this, but I would not call it 100% necessary.

using the highest quality elemental additives is super important as well, I would suggest using Elos or Warner Marine brand additives, as they are typically made of pharmaceutical or analytical reagent grade chemicals.

if you did all that your algae would be dying...


ironically enough, my just started tank is showing it's first signs of algae and im pretty happy about it. I will have to put some herbivores in there soon...

 

[jntcarter]

Ok brain overload....
Let me see of I got this right.
1)GFO based phosphate and carbon in indvidual bags both in my reactor at the same time.
2)Frozen foods instead of dry.
3)I hate scrubbing my rocks...Not near as much as my corals hate being moved all the time. But hey, ya do what ya got to do.
4)Raise my ph and alk to the top of the range.
5)Add Prodibio
6)Add Lugol's Iodine
I think I got it all. That will keep me busy for a while.

Next:
1)What sort of Elos or Marine additives and where can I get the biggest bang for my buck. Which brings me to my next subject.
2)As for a skimmer....well, we all know the economy. I'm on a limited budget, I know wrong hobby, but I love it and I'm doing the best I can. A couple hundred dollars max. I could even buy someone's old skimmer, but I am not allowed to post on the forum yet.

Yor time is truly appreciated
Jacque

 

[Paul B]

Jacque, many of the suggestions are valad. As you have found out there are more "cures" to algae problems than make sense.
The problem is that you can not "cure" algae as it is not a disease but a natural healthy part of any reef in the sea. Of course we don't want to see it in our tanks which causes the "problem."
In the sea the animals quickly take care of any algae but the sea has a little more water then your tank and most of that water is much too deep for algae to grow.
A lighted refugium takes care of the problem permanently but it may be expensive and time consuming.
If I were you I would not feed flakes at all or hardly ever and I would stop changing water.
Yes I know you have always been told to change water to "cure" everything but as I said, there is no "cure"
Algae is the perfect substance to remove algae creating nutrients. Your nitrates read zero because any nitrates are all tied up in your algae.
If you change water you are adding more algae nutrients and more algae will grow, or at least what you have will thrive.
If you don't add any more salt water and at the same time manually remove as much algae as you can by hand, the remaining algae will be starved of nutrients because you are removing concentrated nutrients in the algae.
If you do this a few times, the remaining algae will start to die in a few days and it can be sucked out with a canister filter. You can't leave it in there to rot or it will fuel more algae.
After the algae is gone, you can change water.
Algae comes in cycles and it may re appear again, it probably will especially in a newer tank such as you have.
Feed very little but not flakes. Instead of feeding 4 times a week I would feed "very" little every day.
A fishes stomach is as large as it's eye and it does not have to be filled at every meal. If you fed flakes for instance to a 2" clownfish, about 4 1/4" flakes a day would be enough for that fish.
Or better yet, a couple of mysis. A fish does not dijest extra food even though they will eat all day. If you feed a fish that just ate the food in their intestines will just be pushed out (and made into algae food).
My tank has been going through algae cycles for decades but now I have installed an algae trough that grows algae where I want it to grow. It just gives me more leeway to add more food for the spawning fish.
This algae "problem" will pass as it has passed for all advanced aquarists.
Good luck and have a great day
Paul

 

[ac7av]

I have started 3 saltwater tank in the past 5 years and Paul is correct on all points IMO. After fighting with the first one wondering what the heck is going on with the algae I just stopped worrying about it and stopped doing the water changes and trying to clean it off and after a while it was just disappearing and I didn’t do a thing. By the time I got to my 3 tank, the one I have now I just decided that I was going to embrace the green and brown algae as a sign that the tank is doing what it is suppose to do and at one point the green algae was 2 to 3 inches long. Now all I have is a thin layer on the rocks that the fish peck at, some rocks are completely clean and the fish are very happy and all my tests read nearly flat line. I have no cleaner crew to speak of (1 little crab and two hermits in a 210 gallon tank) and I’m pretty happy with how its going. Just don’t worry about it so much and it will probably go away when it just uses up all the available nutrients in the water. A refugium is the best way to control the algae. You have to have a place for it to grow or it will grow all over the tank, usually in cycles. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[jntcarter]

Jacque, many of the suggestions are valad. As you have found out there are more "cures" to algae problems than make sense.
The problem is that you can not "cure" algae as it is not a disease but a natural healthy part of any reef in the sea. Of course we don't want to see it in our tanks which causes the "problem."
In the sea the animals quickly take care of any algae but the sea has a little more water then your tank and most of that water is much too deep for algae to grow.
A lighted refugium takes care of the problem permanently but it may be expensive and time consuming.
If I were you I would not feed flakes at all or hardly ever and I would stop changing water.
Yes I know you have always been told to change water to "cure" everything but as I said, there is no "cure"
Algae is the perfect substance to remove algae creating nutrients. Your nitrates read zero because any nitrates are all tied up in your algae.
If you change water you are adding more algae nutrients and more algae will grow, or at least what you have will thrive.
If you don't add any more salt water and at the same time manually remove as much algae as you can by hand, the remaining algae will be starved of nutrients because you are removing concentrated nutrients in the algae.
If you do this a few times, the remaining algae will start to die in a few days and it can be sucked out with a canister filter. You can't leave it in there to rot or it will fuel more algae.
After the algae is gone, you can change water.
Algae comes in cycles and it may re appear again, it probably will especially in a newer tank such as you have.
Feed very little but not flakes. Instead of feeding 4 times a week I would feed "very" little every day.
A fishes stomach is as large as it's eye and it does not have to be filled at every meal. If you fed flakes for instance to a 2" clownfish, about 4 1/4" flakes a day would be enough for that fish.
Or better yet, a couple of mysis. A fish does not dijest extra food even though they will eat all day. If you feed a fish that just ate the food in their intestines will just be pushed out (and made into algae food).
My tank has been going through algae cycles for decades but now I have installed an algae trough that grows algae where I want it to grow. It just gives me more leeway to add more food for the spawning fish.
This algae "problem" will pass as it has passed for all advanced aquarists.
Good luck and have a great day
Paul

Ok Paul I will not make anymore water changes. Can you explain to me about you algae trough, I think I might try making one. But one question that I have though.....is if the algae is in you trough can't it seed and spread into your tank.