Have a few questions in regards to this setup.

[Grey Legion]

Ok first and foremost, this has to be hands down the best SW forum I have ever seen, the members offer real advice in a kind and helpful manner, just the place I like to hang out in..

Second I am doing this for a club project so somethings may sound wacky but stick with me and you'll understand.

EL Cheapo SW Setup

As we all know many FW hobbyists dream of setting up a SW tank to add to there collection but get to much misinformation that they tend to shy away.

I chose to break that stereotype !!

I am in the process of setting up my first SW tank on a very low budget for two main reasons.

#1 I am fish poor..LOL
#2 many other are the same

So I had a 35G and stand sitting around and decided to use that as the starting point. (no sump)

I gathered the following equipment mostly by trades and providing help to others.

- 2 corallife T5 fixtures 21watts X 4 = 42watts total output
- 1 EBO 150W heater
- 1 Bucket of Deep Sea salt mix
- 1 Jebo 150 skimmer
- 1 hydrometer
- 2 Eheim power heads
- 1 502 power head
- 2 bags of crushed coral substrate
- 7 pounds of used LR rubble
- LED light fixture (this unit I have not seen yet) but is a beta version of what you see being sold now.
- 1 case of LR ( coming in this week )

Ok, I think that is it..

Now I mixed the salt in tank over a week ago, tested OK for salinity and added the first batch of LR rubble to it, making usre to keep lights off due to the possibity of mini cycle..

I have powerheads and skimmer all hooked up and working well ( skimmer is not skimming anything yet due to it being new ) but I note no dead spots in the waterflow

I will add the new LR as soon as I get it and clean it off as it will be un-cured
and allow the tank to cycle testing as I go until all reads zero.

So here are my questions:

#1 will 40+ pounds of LR rock in a 35G be enough or to much rock

#2 I have no sump and no plans to add one to this tank but I want a small fuge, I don't have the room for a DIY HOB type so I thought if I float a breeder trap with some LR and cheato will that work?

#3 I don't use R/O water but I have a 5 micron water filtration system with carbon will the little fuge be enough to handle the phosfates (sp?)

#4 What kind (species) of corals could I add given the lack of light ( if LED's prove to be no good )

#5 Fish are not my current thought but what could be added in the far future ??

Any other idea's or tips..remember this is a project and a work tank not something in my livingroom so I am willing to take a few chances at this point.

I cannot go out and buy this & that as it goes against the project..

Thanks to all that take the time to read this and offer any insight..

If you need any more info please ask away !!

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF!!!

Now let me see if I can get started helping you out some...

#1 will 40+ pounds of LR rock in a 35G be enough or to much rock

40lbs should be good enough IMO. They say 1-2 lbs per gal, but is debateable. Basically you only need enough rock to support your bioload IMO and 40lbs in a tank that size should provide more than enough filtration for it's occupants

I have no sump and no plans to add one to this tank but I want a small fuge, I don't have the room for a DIY HOB type so I thought if I float a breeder trap with some LR and cheato will that work?

Definately...I wouldn't add LR in there though...Not necessary. You will need a small light to light up the fuge if you want it on an alternate photoperiod, but if you don't want to get into the extra expense, I'd just let the tank's lights provide the lighting for the chaeto.

I don't use R/O water but I have a 5 micron water filtration system with carbon will the little fuge be enough to handle the phosfates (sp?)

Couldn't say for sure...I'm not familiar with a 5 micron filtration system In any event, it's not just the phosphates you should be worried about when not using ro/di water, but nitrates, chlorine etc as well. Where the chaeto is concerned with using up the phosphates and/or nitrates, it's hard to say how much it can bind up. Only so much they can bind up and it all depends how much is in your make up water as well as what is being produced by the system itself (from fish waste, un-eaten food etc). It may just be too much for the chaeto to handle by itself so I'd try testing the water first to see where the levels are at .

What kind (species) of corals could I add given the lack of light ( if LED's prove to be no good )

As for corals, I'm not at all familiar with the led lights you will be using so I can't really comment there...How many watts are they? However, just going on the T-5's alone, that's only a little over 1 watt per gal which really isn't much at all. I personally like to have atleast 3 watts per gal where corals are concerned (even softies) but that's just me Definately though you will only be able to keep very little light demanding corals in a tank like this and maybe someone with more experience will chime in with some ideas on species

Fish are not my current thought but what could be added in the far future ??

Depending on what other inhabitants you put into the tank will determine what you can keep because some fish will eat/nip corals as well as some inverts. Generally speaking I'd say you would be safe with clown fish, some species of wrasses, goby's etc. You definately need to keep fish that don't grow too big and are generally peaceful in a small tank.


Well, that's a few thoughts for starters. Good luck on the project and I will follow along to see where all I can help

 

[Grey Legion]

Thank you for the quick reply..

The little breeder trap fuge will float in the main tank so it will be lighted by that.

As for filtration many reefers in my area don't use R/O and nevr have and all have great tanks with little to no problems..but I will test to make sure..

I will find out more about the LED lights and post what I can to help you to help me..

Thanks again

 

[Krish]

No problem man!

The little breeder trap fuge will float in the main tank so it will be lighted by that.

If it will be floating around the tank, it may cause some issues with lighting for the corals if it rests or comes to a stop right under the light. You may want to secure it to one spot just to be safe. Just a thought...

About the water, you may be alright then. I know a lot of people on the forum that use tap water and have no issues unlike me, my tap water has over 160ppm of nitrates coming out of it so I have to use ro/di water I'd just test it then to be safe

 

[ronj]

#1 will 40+ pounds of LR rock in a 35G be enough or to much rock

i agree with Krish..this is plenty..it will leave more swimming space for the fish as well..

You will need a small light to light up the fuge if you want it on an alternate photoperiod,

Krish , he is floating a breeder in the tank, so reverse lighting periods won't work, unless i've misunderstood what type of breeder he has
I

don't use R/O water but I have a 5 micron water filtration system with carbon will the little fuge be enough to handle the phosfates (sp?)

i think it might be ok..the carbon should take care of the chlorine and sediment...do you have a picture of your water filter setup??????

What kind (species) of corals could I add given the lack of light ( if LED's prove to be no good )

Mushrooms and more mushrooms!! if your led lights are the new lights that are supposed to be really good and normally start at about $1000, you will be able to keep alot more!!! let us know how the led's work out

Fish are not my current thought but what could be added in the far future ??

i would also have to go with clownfish...no tangs though!!!hehe

Any other idea's or tips

i am not familiar with the type of salt you are uysing, but the next bucket you get could be Instant Ocean..i know alot of folks have problems with alot of the brands of salt out there...Instant Ocean is a very good choice..you don't have to worry about the elements being proportioned wrong in there

hope all goes well!!!

 

[Grey Legion]

Ah, that is a good idea..I will click the breeder trap to the side of the tank and make sure I don't put any corals there that may have ill effects. As for the type of breeder trap, it is the clear plastic type with very fine slits in either side.

The filter is made by a company called R-Can and it contains a 5 micron pre & post filter along with a section for carbon. should be able to treat a few hundred gallons as it is meant for industrial use. I can attach a 20-1 micron post filter if needed to remove almost any and all sediment. Before that step is reached I will do a few tests and see what I get. As for salt the brand I have I get for free, like I stated earlier I am big into trade.. so free will be the bst choice unless it has very bad effects.

Lastly I am very eager to get my hands on the LED lights, I will be sure to post more details on them as I get it, as far as I know now they are a prototype of a soon to be released unit. A member of my fish club is actually testing them out and is on the 2nd prototype so I get the first. the 2nd prototype contains white light (10K ??) so that is why I added the T5's to my setup..

Thanks again

I am very happy people are interested in this project and we are able to discuss it in a calm and non-attacking manner,this site is proving to be amazing !!

 

[Krish]

Sounds good! It will be really interesting to see the new lights! Here are some of the L.E.D ones on the market now which I think Ron (ronj) was referring to


http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Solaris

I am very happy people are interested in this project and we are able to discuss it in a calm and non-attacking manner,this site is proving to be amazing !!

LOL! Bashing doesn't last very long on this forum We are more here for the hobby and helping one another rather than showing off our ego's and who is right and who is wrong

 

[ronj]

yeah, those are the ones Krish...i would like to try them out, but not for that price!!!

 

[Grey Legion]

From what I understand about mine they are a early prototype all the factors are correct lighting wise but the housing is lack luster with out fans/timers or anything fancy. Lastly they are missing the white LED's (10k ??) that is why I added the T5's I'll have them this Wednesday and I will post more about them and maybe a picture or two..

 

[Krish]

Sounds good!

 

[Meche]

Welcome to RF Grey Legion

I cannot go out and buy this & that as it goes against the project..

Very interesting. Is it against the rules to enlighten us about the other rules for this project? Is it a competition? Inquiring minds want to know :lol:

I'm not at all familiar with the led lights you will be using so I can't really comment there...How many watts are they?

If there is ever a time to dump this old watts/gal "rule of thumb" this would be it. LEDs are extremely efficient lighting.

 

[Krish]

If there is ever a time to dump this old watts/gal "rule of thumb" this would be it. LEDs are extremely efficient lighting.

Put a few L.E.D moonlights over your tank and let me know how your SPS's and clams thrive For all we know, they may not be the same form of led's as the Solaris uses and everyone knows regular led's we use for moonlights won't provide enough PAR for corals to grow

 

[Meche]

:lol: touché :lol:

However, I believe most of the power loss from those comes from the resistor attached to each one. The actual LED on those only uses a fraction of a watt to generate its light.

These new-fangled LED are nothing but magic. And I really, really want one (or two).

 

[Krish]

These new-fangled LED are nothing but magic. And I really, really want one (or two).

I hope you have deep pockets:lol:

 

[returnofsid]

As far as the floating breeder net with chaeto goes, I'd fasten it to the side of the tank in an area where it gets lots of circulation....like in front of a powerhead. That will do a couple things...chaeto loves circulation and the more water filtering through it, the more water the chaeto can actually filter. The only other thing I might consider is going with aragonite based sugar sand instead of crushed coral. Crushed Coral is notorious for growing algae much worse than aragonite sugar sand. If you're able to build up the live rock high enough towards the lighting, I think you'd be fine with several softy corals...ie, Mushrooms, Kenya Tree, Xenia. Keep us in the loop and let us know how it's working out. Oh and by the way, do you have room for a HOB powerfilter like an Aqua Clear? The reason I ask is because it's really easy to turn them into a very effective DIY refugium.

 

[Grey Legion]

Meche - The project is called "EL Cheapo SW setup" in my 15+ years of keeping FW I always thought that SW was for the rich and over educated.

In our fish club we had many debates if a SW tank could be setup for a paupers budget and I said it could..so now I have to prove it.

Many of the products I got, I traded for as well all know beggers cannot be choosers.

So I am out to prove the following points ( within my club )

SW can be done on a fixed budget
SW can be without having to study for 10 years
SW can be fun and simple

Hope that clears things up..it is no means a contest of any sort

Krish75 - The LED's in question are not moonlight of any sort and will be the same as the solaris units we all see and know

Returnofsid - Thanks for the tip with the cheato I will pin it by a powerhead, looks like I will be getting a ton of it for free..YAH !!

I got the crushed coral for free, so I will be stubborn and use it..this will in no way be my last SW tank..

The LR will be stacked almost to the waters surface. at least that is my intention, I want to keep all my corals as high as possible.

I have room for a HOB on the back of the tank to the wall but due to my lighting setup and small footprint of the tank I have no room on top.
I will look into raising the light but I have to see the LED's first..

Hope that answers everything, keep the idea's questions and comments coming !!

 

[returnofsid]

Ahhh I see....lights come too close to the back of the tank for the waterfall portion of the HOB powerfilter. I had that problem and had to change the way my lights sat on the tank. Raising them did help me with that problem. I do have them lowered now but don't have a lot of room in front of the lights either...lol.

 

[Grey Legion]

Ahhh I see....lights come too close to the back of the tank for the waterfall portion of the HOB powerfilter. I had that problem and had to change the way my lights sat on the tank. Raising them did help me with that problem. I do have them lowered now but don't have a lot of room in front of the lights either...lol.

That seems to be the biggest problem I can see in SW to much gear and not enough room..LOL

for most of my FW tanks all I have is a heater and a sponge filter(s)

but for the little 35G sw I have 3 powerheads, skimmer, heater, 2 T5's, LED fixture..

Tested ammonia last night and I am at 0.25 so I guess a cycle has started from the LR rubble..

 

[Meche]

That seems to be the biggest problem I can see in SW to much gear and not enough room..LOL

I'm not kidding; people make rooms for it all. :lol:

 

[Krish]

Krish75 - The LED's in question are not moonlight of any sort and will be the same as the solaris units we all see and know

Very cool man...They should work out great!

As for the substrate issue, I agree with "sid" (eventhough he once referred to me as a girl here:lol: ) Crushed corals have a tendancy to trap detritus in the tiny pockets and would need really good vaccuming to prevent any water quality issues. I had nitrate issues I couldn't manage and part of the problem was the crushed corals I used. I just couldn't seem to vaccum it enough. I later switched to fiji pink (a finer grain) and had better success with nitrates never going above 10ppm, but it wasn't until I went bare bottom I went nitrate free, but it is an aquired taste because not very many people like the look. In any event, people keep nitrate free tanks with all sorts of different substrates types, grain etc so you just have to go with what works for you. You may be fine using the crushed corals as some people have success. It's just that they are known to cause some issues